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Yoda 10-07-2005 06:03 PM
The Secret of Golf
 
Aahhh...my own corner office. Cool!

Now let me see...what can I do to get this thing started off right? How about The Secret of Golf? Coming soon to a computer screen near you!

phillygolf 10-08-2005 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda
Aahhh...my own corner office. Cool!

Now let me see...what can I do to get this thing started off right? How about The Secret of Golf? Coming soon to a computer screen near you!
Which one?

;)

Mathew 10-08-2005 03:01 AM
Bring it on Yoda :)

Thom 10-08-2005 04:10 AM
The secret of golf,
the secret of golf or
the secret of golf

Which one is it:???:
Yoda - give it to us: the secret of golf

tongzilla 10-08-2005 04:35 AM
The Secrets of Golf
 
tongzilla is very excited about the revamped forum and is poised to make his first contribution. I hope Yoda won't smack me with his dowels for butting in :o .

As phillygolf has elluded to earlier, there are two Secrets of Golf. I will give an overview which hopefully will spark off some discussion.


1) Sustaining the Line of Compression (2-0).
One can imagine this to be a shooting a pool stick through cue ball. The straight path the cue takes as it goes through the ball is the Line of Compression. The point where the stick striks the ball is the Compression Point. This is a Linear Force, which simply means the force acts in a straight line.

In golf, the Clubhead is moving in a circle, hence we have Angular Force. But our objective is to produce the same effect as a Linear Force with the orbiting Clubhead. We achieve this by having the contact point between the Ball and Clubface welded at the same point from Impact to Separation. All while the Clubhead is moving in an arc.

This can only be achieved by using Horizontal Hinging.

Hitters using Angled Hinging does not have the Clubface and Clubshaft rotating around the same center (in fact the Clubface has no center), and hence cannot maintain the same Compression Point through Impact. So you better find a good way to compensate for this inferiorty if you're a Hitter!


2) Clubhead Lag (6-C-2)
There are actually three types of Lag: Pivot Lag (Body Poit for Swingers and Launching Pad for Hitters), Accumulator Lag (6-B-1/2/3/4) and Clubhead Lag (6-C-2). So that angle between the Clubshaft and Left Arm everyone in the Golf World talks about is merely Accumulator #2 Lag. Contrary to popular belief, you can be using a Sweep Release and still have lots of Clubhead Lag.

Clubhead lag is that heaviness you feel through Pressure Point #3 as Club changes direction. The Longitundinal Center of Gravity of the Club (i.e. the Sweetspot), resists that change due to its inertia (i.e. mass). The Sweetspot doesn't want to move, but it has to. This stresses the Clubshaft and produces that heavy feeling which you try to maintain all the way down, never even thinking about releasing this heaviness. This feel may be cultivated by dragging a wet mop from Release to Follow-Through.

Martee 10-08-2005 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongzilla
tongzilla is very excited about the revamped forum and is poised to make his first contribution. I hope Yoda won't smack me with his dowels for butting in :o .

As phillygolf has elluded to earlier, there are two Secrets of Golf. I will give an overview which hopefully will spark off some discussion.


1) Sustaining the Line of Compression (2-0).
One can imagine this to be a shooting a pool stick through cue ball. The straight path the cue takes as it goes through the ball is the Line of Compression. The point where the stick striks the ball is the Compression Point. This is a Linear Force, which simply means the force acts in a straight line.

In golf, the Clubhead is moving in a circle, hence we have Angular Force. But our objective is to produce the same effect as a Linear Force with the orbiting Clubhead. We achieve this by having the contact point between the Ball and Clubface welded at the same point from Impact to Separation. All while the Clubhead is moving in an arc.

This can only be achieved by using Horizontal Hinging.

Hitters using Angled Hinging does not have the Clubface and Clubshaft rotating around the same center (in fact the Clubface has no center), and hence cannot maintain the same Compression Point through Impact. So you better find a good way to compensate for this inferiorty if you're a Hitter!


2) Clubhead Lag (6-C-2)
There are actually three types of Lag: Pivot Lag (Body Poit for Swingers and Launching Pad for Hitters), Accumulator Lag (6-B-1/2/3/4) and Clubhead Lag (6-C-2). So that angle between the Clubshaft and Left Arm everyone in the Golf World talks about is merely Accumulator #2 Lag. Contrary to popular belief, you can be using a Sweep Release and still have lots of Clubhead Lag.

Clubhead lag is that heaviness you feel through Pressure Point #3 as Club changes direction. The Longitundinal Center of Gravity of the Club (i.e. the Sweetspot), resists that change due to its inertia (i.e. mass). The Sweetspot doesn't want to move, but it has to. This stresses the Clubshaft and produces that heavy feeling which you try to maintain all the way down, never even thinking about releasing this heaviness. This feel may be cultivated by dragging a wet mop from Release to Follow-Through.
I am not sure that I can buy into the logic.

True Angle Hinging per-se lack a true center, BUT it is quite clear the component composition in 12-1-0 for a Hitter is to use Angle Hinging.

Now 2-C-0 (Linear Force) does elude to '..perfectly centered action -- or a compensating manipulation', however it discusses that the Physical Center not be the center of the ball or gravitational center, just the point of compression. "In other words, the original contact points of the Clubface and ball must remain in contact throughout the entire Impact Interval. This is possible only if the motion--or arc--is uniform..."

So I guess what I am saying I don't track with your logic regarding Horizontal Hinging. In fact what would you say in regards to Vertical Hinging?

And I am a bit concerned that it appears that Hinging is the Key to Sustaining the Line of Compression, I thought there were some other elements that were of equal if not more importance.

Yoda 10-08-2005 09:16 AM
Where's That Bait Box?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongzilla

Clubhead lag is that heaviness you feel through Pressure Point #3 as Club changes direction. The Longitundinal Center of Gravity of the Club (i.e. the Sweetspot), resists that change due to its inertia (i.e. mass). The Sweetspot doesn't want to move, but it has to. This stresses the Clubshaft and produces that heavy feeling which you try to maintain all the way down, never even thinking about releasing this heaviness. This feel may be cultivated by dragging a wet mop from Release to Follow-Through.
The secret is out and jig is up. No need for me to write: I'm goin' fishin'! :D

6bmike 10-08-2005 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda
The secret is out and jig is up. No need for me to write: I'm goin' fishin'! :D
Lynn -- BD did make an impression on you, didn't he? You have been dragging that mop around with you everywhere. :) :)

MizunoJoe 10-08-2005 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda
The secret is out and jig is up. No need for me to write: I'm goin' fishin'! :D
The jig isn't up til someone explains in detail just how that "secret" is to be physically realized.

6bmike 10-08-2005 10:36 AM
which secret
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MizunoJoe
The jig isn't up til someone explains in detail just how that "secret" is to be physically realized.
Explain please. What secret are you talking about and what physical problem do you have in its accomplishmnet?

MizunoJoe 10-08-2005 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bmike
Explain please. What secret are you talking about and what physical problem do you have in its accomplishmnet?
What secret??? Have you read the quote to which I responded?

Lag is described but the only mention of HOW it is obtained is a single sentence about dragging a wet mop through impact. The problem is that a wet mop can be drug through impact incorrectly and in such a way that when switching from a wet mop to a golf club, lag won't happen. Someone who doesn't have lag and having read the above posts, still won't.

So the "jig" isn't up.

Martee 10-08-2005 12:05 PM
For me and most of my golfing life, I rarely sensed clubhead lag. Then I did. Yoda had me working on my rhythm, take the club to top, pause and slide the hips then complete the stroke. It was during this drill that 'wow' that was different, I could feel it. I must admit we had made one additional change and that was in my start up twisting the last 3 fingers of the left hand under.

Since then Feeling the lag has come and gone and now its back. When Vickie gave me some exercises to do, she made a point that they needed to be done slow and smooth motions.

Light bulb time. Yup I was taking the club back to fast which required me to tighten my grip to the point that I didn't feel the pressure point. I slowed the back stroke down and realized I didn't have apply a death grip to control the club at the top and there it was.

Recently I have tried experimenting with taking the right thumb and index finger off the shaft and swinging. Do you think you can still monitor/feel lag?

I still rely on one Yoda's tips regarding the grip, have the right thumb over the top, not on top, but over, this seems, at least for me to allow to feel PP#1, PP#3 easily.

If you need to get the feel of this, I would suggest try using a putter and just one hand. PP#1 is where the drive applied and PP#3 should feel the weight.

How many people monitor lag when putting?

drewitgolf 10-08-2005 12:14 PM
When I started monitoring lag when putting, my inconsistency with the flat-stick vanished.

6bmike 10-08-2005 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MizunoJoe
What secret??? Have you read the quote to which I responded?
Chill out Joe. There is a two question mark limit.

I wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing- you left it open as to what you thought the secret was. I live with women, my mind reading skills deteriorated years ago.

Quote:

Lag is described but the only mention of HOW it is obtained is a single sentence about dragging a wet mop through impact. The problem is that a wet mop can be drug through impact incorrectly and in such a way that when switching from a wet mop to a golf club, lag won't happen.
Swab the deck mate. Can't push it and have the hands ahead of the big wet heavy mop head.

Quote:
Someone who doesn't have lag and having read the above posts, still won't.

So the "jig" isn't up.
He or she will have an understanding of lag after dragging a mop. One step at a time. I'm sure some time in incubation is worth owning a secret.

MizunoJoe 10-08-2005 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bmike

He or she will have an understanding of lag after dragging a mop. One step at a time. I'm sure some time in incubation is worth owning a secret.
You can pull that mop through with "hands moving hands", i.e. adding hand effort to the pivot. For some the incubation period could be yrs.

tongzilla 10-08-2005 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martee
I am not sure that I can buy into the logic.

True Angle Hinging per-se lack a true center, BUT it is quite clear the component composition in 12-1-0 for a Hitter is to use Angle Hinging.
...and?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martee


So I guess what I am saying I don't track with your logic regarding Horizontal Hinging. In fact what would you say in regards to Vertical Hinging?

And I am a bit concerned that it appears that Hinging is the Key to Sustaining the Line of Compression, I thought there were some other elements that were of equal if not more importance.
Indeed the Impact Points for Vertical Hinging in 2-C-2 remains intact during Impact Interval. And Hinging is not a only factor. I'd be intereted in further comments from anyone.

tongzilla 10-08-2005 02:01 PM
House cleaning time
 
So why is dragging a wet mop through impact helpful?

Because you can try to 'throw it away' with your hands and overaccelerate, and still get that sense of heaviness through Pressure Point 3. You can the right feeling even if you do things incorrectly. So you know what it should feel like when you've got a real club in your hands.
Now you've got something to compare against, a feel that you're striving for. So when you do 'get it', you can say to yourself, 'this feels similar to dragging a wet mop. Now I know what this Clubhead Lag stuff is really about'.

MizunoJoe 10-08-2005 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongzilla
So why is dragging a wet mop through impact helpful?

Because you can try to 'throw it away' with your hands and overaccelerate, and still get that sense of heaviness through Pressure Point 3. You can the right feeling even if you do things incorrectly. So you know what it should feel like when you've got a real club in your hands.
Now you've got something to compare against, a feel that you're striving for. So when you do 'get it', you can say to yourself, 'this feels similar to dragging a wet mop. Now I know what this Clubhead Lag stuff is really about'.
Exactly, which is why something other than mops is required.

annikan skywalker 10-08-2005 07:42 PM
The other pre-requisite is ....Talent!!! Otherwise it is a constant flippin that burger over on the grill until it's done...some peole just can't cook! Never will!!!

If you can't throw a spiral with a football, throw a slider with a baseball, shoot a free throw with a basketball with proper form, or just plain flick a "booger" with your right forefinger you've got no chance ...lack of proprioceptive skills...that is the secret to feeling lag pressure on the #3 pressure point...So keep inubating until you aquire more and more proprioception


Skywalker

birdie_man 10-08-2005 09:57 PM
Flick a booger?

lol....crazy old Skywalker...

Yoda 10-08-2005 10:44 PM
Losing The Point Of Compression -- The Lob Shot
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongzilla
Indeed the Impact Points for Vertical Hinging in 2-C-2 remains intact during Impact Interval.
And thus there is no loss of the Compression Point during Vertical Hinging (Clubface Layback Only) until the Clubhead passes through Low Point. Then, as the Clubhead moves parallel to the ground, the Clubface tilts under the Ball, the point of Compression is lost, and the result is the floating, ballistic trajectory of the Lob Shot.

Yoda 10-08-2005 10:53 PM
They May Be Bitin' -- But I Don't Care!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MizunoJoe

Lag is described but the only mention of HOW it is obtained is a single sentence about dragging a wet mop through impact. The problem is that a wet mop can be drug through impact incorrectly and in such a way that when switching from a wet mop to a golf club, lag won't happen. Someone who doesn't have lag and having read the above posts, still won't.

So the "jig" isn't up.
Hmmm...I've decided I don't like fishin' that much anyway. Stay tuned.

gscheid 10-19-2005 08:32 AM
Take a lesson
 
Anyone can be taught to develope a swing that has leverage into impact. You must first learn proper grip posture aim and pivot. Than you work on linkage, width, and sync. of club head arms and body. Lag or leverage is a byproduct of doing things right before impact. You can not simply develope leverage into a incorrect set up and pivot.

Kind Regards, Gary

phillygolf 10-25-2005 01:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongzilla
tongzilla is very excited about the revamped forum and is poised to make his first contribution. I hope Yoda won't smack me with his dowels for butting in :o .

As phillygolf has elluded to earlier, there are two Secrets of Golf. I will give an overview which hopefully will spark off some discussion.


1) Sustaining the Line of Compression (2-0).
One can imagine this to be a shooting a pool stick through cue ball. The straight path the cue takes as it goes through the ball is the Line of Compression. The point where the stick striks the ball is the Compression Point. This is a Linear Force, which simply means the force acts in a straight line.

In golf, the Clubhead is moving in a circle, hence we have Angular Force. But our objective is to produce the same effect as a Linear Force with the orbiting Clubhead. We achieve this by having the contact point between the Ball and Clubface welded at the same point from Impact to Separation. All while the Clubhead is moving in an arc.

This can only be achieved by using Horizontal Hinging.

Hitters using Angled Hinging does not have the Clubface and Clubshaft rotating around the same center (in fact the Clubface has no center), and hence cannot maintain the same Compression Point through Impact. So you better find a good way to compensate for this inferiorty if you're a Hitter!


2) Clubhead Lag (6-C-2)
There are actually three types of Lag: Pivot Lag (Body Poit for Swingers and Launching Pad for Hitters), Accumulator Lag (6-B-1/2/3/4) and Clubhead Lag (6-C-2). So that angle between the Clubshaft and Left Arm everyone in the Golf World talks about is merely Accumulator #2 Lag. Contrary to popular belief, you can be using a Sweep Release and still have lots of Clubhead Lag.

Clubhead lag is that heaviness you feel through Pressure Point #3 as Club changes direction. The Longitundinal Center of Gravity of the Club (i.e. the Sweetspot), resists that change due to its inertia (i.e. mass). The Sweetspot doesn't want to move, but it has to. This stresses the Clubshaft and produces that heavy feeling which you try to maintain all the way down, never even thinking about releasing this heaviness. This feel may be cultivated by dragging a wet mop from Release to Follow-Through.
Tongzilla - excellent post!!! Really good stuff! Very thorough and explained extremely well!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martee
Now 2-C-0 (Linear Force) does elude to '..perfectly centered action -- or a compensating manipulation', however it discusses that the Physical Center not be the center of the ball or gravitational center, just the point of compression. "In other words, the original contact points of the Clubface and ball must remain in contact throughout the entire Impact Interval. This is possible only if the motion--or arc--is uniform..."

So I guess what I am saying I don't track with your logic regarding Horizontal Hinging. In fact what would you say in regards to Vertical Hinging?

And I am a bit concerned that it appears that Hinging is the Key to Sustaining the Line of Compression, I thought there were some other elements that were of equal if not more importance.
Martee...

Angled hinging has an uncentered linear motion. Tong is simply saying that in horizontal hinging, the clubhead and clubface are rotating around the same center - and therefore, the arc is uniform...as opposed to angled hinging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tongzilla
Clubhead lag is that heaviness you feel through Pressure Point #3 as Club changes direction.
Another way to explain the heaviness Tong speaks of is to simply say feeling the clubhead's weight. Just a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MizunoJoe
Lag is described but the only mention of HOW it is obtained is a single sentence about dragging a wet mop through impact. The problem is that a wet mop can be drug through impact incorrectly and in such a way that when switching from a wet mop to a golf club, lag won't happen. Someone who doesn't have lag and having read the above posts, still won't.

So the "jig" isn't up.
MJ...

I think the more pertinent point is, if you drag a wet mop through impact, you will be feeling the mop's head (is that grammatically correct) weight through impact...and will not throw it. Sure...anyone can throw it...but realistically - will they????? So...try to duplicate a similiar feeling with a club. Either slow it down or shorten the stroke until you can feel the clubhead (lag)...

Whatcha think???


FUN, FUN THREAD EVERYONE! Good stuff!!! Very informative and thought provoking from everyone. At least it is for me!

-Patrick

MizunoJoe 10-25-2005 07:57 AM
Death, Taxes, and Throwaway
 
Philly wrote, "Sure...anyone can throw it...but realistically - will they?????".

You can bet on it!;)

6bmike 10-25-2005 08:22 AM
Patrick you are so right.

The pulling of a ‘heavy’ clubhead (mop head too) by the left side and the pivot allowing the right hand to drive upon it gives throw-away a slim to none chance in the hands of a G.O.L.F.er.

Heaviness is Heaven- ness. :p

Sustaining the Lag- one dirty floor at a time.

6b

Martee 10-25-2005 09:03 AM
Quote:
Philly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martee
Now 2-C-0 (Linear Force) does elude to '..perfectly centered action -- or a compensating manipulation', however it discusses that the Physical Center not be the center of the ball or gravitational center, just the point of compression. "In other words, the original contact points of the Clubface and ball must remain in contact throughout the entire Impact Interval. This is possible only if the motion--or arc--is uniform..."

So I guess what I am saying I don't track with your logic regarding Horizontal Hinging. In fact what would you say in regards to Vertical Hinging?

And I am a bit concerned that it appears that Hinging is the Key to Sustaining the Line of Compression, I thought there were some other elements that were of equal if not more importance.

Martee...

Angled hinging has an uncentered linear motion. Tong is simply saying that in horizontal hinging, the clubhead and clubface are rotating around the same center - and therefore, the arc is uniform...as opposed to angled hinging.
Well I read Tong's write up to specifically state HORZ hinging and sustaining the lag...

Quote:
This can only be achieved by using Horizontal Hinging.

Hitters using Angled Hinging does not have the Clubface and Clubshaft rotating around the same center (in fact the Clubface has no center), and hence cannot maintain the same Compression Point through Impact. So you better find a good way to compensate for this inferiorty if you're a Hitter!
I think this is wrong in so much as saying
1. cannot maintain the same Compression Point through Impact

2. compensate for this inferiorty if you're a Hitter

What I am reading based on this write up is that Hinging is the key to sustaining the lag. In fact it Hitters using Angled Hinging are using an inferior component application and yet in 12-1 that is what Kelley recommends.

If this is true, then what is the compensation a hitter must adopt in 12-1 to overcome this inferrior component application?

And then we have vertical which has a centered motion and yet of the three hinging application this is probably the least likely one that sustaining the lag is a priority with based on it application in the golf stroke to produce shots.

tongzilla 10-25-2005 03:50 PM
Vertical Hinging does have a centered motion hence the Line of Compression is sustained just like Horizontal Hinging (and unlike Angled Hinging). However, Vertical Hinging is not the "Ideal Application" because of its extreme Layback Clubface Motion and manual manipulation required to produce it.

Notice I did I not say anything about "Hinging is the key to sustaining Lag" in any of my posts. I kept the concept of sustaining the Line of Compression independent from the concept of sustaining Clubhead Lag. I would add that these ideas should be kept theoretically and conceptually separate, even though they are inextricably linked in the pratical world.

Here is a fact:
The same compression point cannot be maintained during the Impact Interval when using Angled Hinging (the typical Hitter's Hinge Action). There should be no debate about facts. Ceteris paribus, the ball will not go as far. Alas! Everything is not equal!

Martee 10-25-2005 10:41 PM
Sorry I mistyped in the second reference it was meant to be line of compression as I starte at the beginning of the post. You made it clear that hinging was your focus regarding sustaining the line of compression, that is what I am not sure is correct, maybe key is too strong of a word, but that is essentially all you addressed in your intial post.

BUT you stated
Quote:
tongzilla wrote...Notice I did I not say anything about "Hinging is the key to sustaining Lag" in any of my posts. I kept the concept of sustaining the Line of Compression independent from the concept of sustaining Clubhead Lag. I would add that these ideas should be kept theoretically and conceptually separate, even though they are inextricably linked in the pratical world.

Here is a fact:
The same compression point cannot be maintained during the Impact Interval when using Angled Hinging (the typical Hitter's Hinge Action). There should be no debate about facts. Ceteris paribus, the ball will not go as far. Alas! Everything is not equal!
Fact, well I would like someone to not use the TGM book or statements and get some real references. Cause I know the description of longitudal center of gravity in defining the sweetspot plane is often incorrectly stated.

So if you have some time, I would be interested in the references.

phillygolf 10-25-2005 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MizunoJoe
Philly wrote, "Sure...anyone can throw it...but realistically - will they?????".

You can bet on it!;)
MJ, that was great! Death, taxes, throwaway!

But...seriously...have you ever seen ANYONE throw a mop in the context we are speaking - meaning, throwaway? Offplane, maybe. But actually throwaway the pressure? Hmmm.....

I think your point is simply that dragging a wet mop doesn't necessarily translate to 'sustaining the lag'. Yes?

MARTEE...

Because there are a bunch of concepts being mixed here...can you be specific to your contention? I am with you - meaning, for myself, I cannot learn or visual or comprehend [i]anything[/]i unless it is exact! So...for my benefit....please...be exact.

Any where is my damn video??? I paid 30 bucks last year...and nothing!!! ;) ;) ;)

Patrick

tongzilla 10-26-2005 04:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martee
Sorry I mistyped in the second reference it was meant to be line of compression as I starte at the beginning of the post. You made it clear that hinging was your focus regarding sustaining the line of compression, that is what I am not sure is correct, maybe key is too strong of a word, but that is essentially all you addressed in your intial post.

BUT you stated


Fact, well I would like someone to not use the TGM book or statements and get some real references. Cause I know the description of longitudal center of gravity in defining the sweetspot plane is often incorrectly stated.

So if you have some time, I would be interested in the references.

Martee,

You want me to:
1) Not quote the book.
2) And you want me to give you references at the same time. :confused:

The reason is that you want some real references. So references from the book are fake and unsubstantiated? :rolleyes:

I will quote myself again:
"The same compression point cannot be maintained during the Impact Interval when using Angled Hinging."

Disagree? Maybe someone with more authority, such as Yoda, can help.

Martee 10-27-2005 12:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongzilla
Martee,

You want me to:
1) Not quote the book.
2) And you want me to give you references at the same time. :confused:

The reason is that you want some real references. So references from the book are fake and unsubstantiated? :rolleyes:

I will quote myself again:
"The same compression point cannot be maintained during the Impact Interval when using Angled Hinging."

Disagree? Maybe someone with more authority, such as Yoda, can help.
I hope I am not taking you post wrong, but yes something as a reference other than the book. Its based on science, so in attempting to see it, where is it in another reference is my question.

I don't beleive I stated the book was a fake but clearly you are unable based on your response to substantiate it other than with use of the book.

If you were to put a dot on your club face and strike the ball using angled hinging, when you retrieved the ball what would you expect to see? With vertical? With Horizontal? Would the club's loft change the results? Will the ball actually move up the face changing the point of impact to point of separation?

This is somewhat of a subset of the question I have in that the role hinging plays on substaining the line of compression vs other components and their variations.

Assuming all is as stated, then what compensation does a hitter have to do in order to substain the line of compression when using Angled Hinging vs say Horizontal?

tongzilla 10-30-2005 09:22 PM
Different Perspective
 
Here is another way you can think of the two Secrets of Golf.

The first secret, Sustaining the Line of Compression, concerns the Geometry of the Stroke.

The second secret, Sustaining Clubhead Lag, concerns the Physics of the Stroke.

Martee 10-30-2005 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongzilla
Here is another way you can think of the two Secrets of Golf.

The first secret, Sustaining the Line of Compression, concerns the Geometry of the Stroke.

The second secret, Sustaining Clubhead Lag, concerns the Physics of the Stroke.
I don't wish to get into a contest over this topic, but it seems to me that the questions I asked are proper in seeking further understanding especially when it comes down to statements that indicate Homer indeed selected a component variation that requires compensation instead of selecting one that didn't for a pattern. Given that Homer understood what he was doing, there must be a combination that doesn't require compensation and provides a solid effective golf stroke. The heart of my quesiton is 'angled hinging' use what to not require a compensation move and be effective. I understand that a compensation would be something 'extra' or additional to make up for a deficency the way Homer used it.

So I guess the search continues unless someone can maybe clear this up, back it up, or change it.

By the way I thought I understood line of compression and clubhead lag, I just didn't understand the hinging with respect to line of compression as it was being stated, still don't.

phillygolf 11-04-2005 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martee
The heart of my quesiton is 'angled hinging' use what to not require a compensation move and be effective. I understand that a compensation would be something 'extra' or additional to make up for a deficency the way Homer used it.
Martee...

Keep in mind that in angled hinging the clubface is staying open to the plane...versus horizontal in which it is constantly closing. So...in angled, the motion has no true center.

Not sure about the 'compensation' per se...but it may be this. To offset the layback requires that the clubface be closed at fix to offset the slice inducing tendency.

Horizontal hinging has no such tendency because the face is constantly closing in relation to the inclined plane.

Hope this helps.

Patrick

oztrainee 11-16-2005 02:20 PM
Lag
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bmike
Chill out Joe. There is a two question mark limit.

I wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing- you left it open as to what you thought the secret was. I live with women, my mind reading skills deteriorated years ago.



Swab the deck mate. Can't push it and have the hands ahead of the big wet heavy mop head.



He or she will have an understanding of lag after dragging a mop. One step at a time. I'm sure some time in incubation is worth owning a secret.
Tongz.. very well done, excellent post, although I heard that from you many many times from you over the phone.

Quick question the mop drill, could we say that it is more like a Hitter's drill rather then a swinger drill?

I really keen to find out a definate answer of LAG, imo LAG is more like a feeling rather then .... ..

What do you think about holding a club with a whippy shaft with your finger, and try to swing the clubhead and stress the clubshaft with minimum amount of body and hands motion.

tongzilla 11-16-2005 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztrainee
Tongz.. very well done, excellent post, although I heard that from you many many times from you over the phone.

Quick question the mop drill, could we say that it is more like a Hitter's drill rather then a swinger drill?
When Hitting -- Drive the wet mop through Impact using muscular Right Arm Thrust, which is directly felt through Pressure Point #1 and #3.

When Swiging -- Drag the wet mop through Impact by turning your left side against your Left Arm, which is directly felt through Pressure Point #4 and indirectly felt through Pressure Point #3.

Either way, it's deliberate, positive and heavy -- constant Loading, constant direction.

tongzilla 11-16-2005 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martee
I don't wish to get into a contest over this topic, but it seems to me that the questions I asked are proper in seeking further understanding especially when it comes down to statements that indicate Homer indeed selected a component variation that requires compensation instead of selecting one that didn't for a pattern. Given that Homer understood what he was doing, there must be a combination that doesn't require compensation and provides a solid effective golf stroke. The heart of my quesiton is 'angled hinging' use what to not require a compensation move and be effective. I understand that a compensation would be something 'extra' or additional to make up for a deficency the way Homer used it.

So I guess the search continues unless someone can maybe clear this up, back it up, or change it.

By the way I thought I understood line of compression and clubhead lag, I just didn't understand the hinging with respect to line of compression as it was being stated, still don't.
That's why if you're using Angled Hinging and you want to hit a perfectly straight shot with no side spin, it's going to be a pull shot. Clubface needs to be closed at Impact (the longer the club implies longer impact interval which means clubface more closed) to allow for the 'opening'.

But I'm not sure if Homer viewed that as a proper 'compensation' (e.g. trying to steer clubface to by bending left wrist). Like you said, the 12-1 and 12-2 Basic Patterns are supposed to be uncompensated strokes.


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