End vs Top for Swingers
 

I don't have the book at hand for reference (shame!) but I believe 12-2 recommends Assembly point for Swingers as End. What advantages are offered over stopping at Top? It seems to me that using Top Arc and Straight Line Delivery Path is more complicated than just the Straight Line path available if one stopped at Top.

I recall there is a comment by Yoda in one of the videos that he goes to End when Swinging to differentiate the feelings between Swinging and Hitting. However, if one is primarily or only a Swinger, is there another advantage to going to End?

TIA

RT

the longer the backstroke, the more potential you have to for maximum centrifugal force.

The difference is so you can load the lag pressure against the first knuckle by going to the end of the backstroke ready to drag that pressure by the pivot. The hitter loads directly against pp3, ready to drive directly by the thrusting of hit right triceps.

If anything, going to the End position necessitates that the hands have to go back to the right shoulder before going down plane together - an extra move - top arc and straight line.

From a Top position all that is needed is a straight line delivery.

The less you do in the golf swing, the better. Less is more, more is less.

Thanks to all for the replies.

To comdpa: I agree that less may be better, which is why I wondered why Homer recommended End as the Assembly Point.

To load the left wrist, by bending the right elbow, while keeping the right wrist from cocking.

If you only go to 'top', you either have not loaded the left wrist as much as you could, or you have cocked your right wrist to do it incorrectly.

You've got to get the thumb 'under' the shaft.

You can find the answer to your question in 6-C-2-D and in 6-B-1-D, if you apply Extensor Action, its tough to get past the Top position.

I will admit, there are stuff in the book that I don't yet fully comprehend.

But we need to let those things that are easily understood take precedence over the obscure.

Besides the point you raised, there are some other issues that are obscure too:

In 7-9, 10-9-B, Impact address is mentioned as "useful" for hitters, yet in 12-1-0, why is standard address listed?

In 12-2-0, why is it a snap load then a non-auto sweep release? Should they not be the same as in snap with snap or sweep with sweep?

Homer is not around that we can ask him, but like I mentioned above, let the clear and obvious preside over the obscure.

And besides, this forum seems to be doing pretty ok...haha

Basic Pattern Variations -- Inital And Customized
 

Justin,

1. The Standard Address for Hitters (12-1-0) is used for two reasons. First, it facilitates moving between the Hitting and Swinging (12-2-0) Basic Patterns. Second, it facilitates the Hitter's Angle of Approach procedure because the Right Forearm and the Shaft are pointing at nearly the same place on the Delivery Line. A Fix alignment of the Right Forearm (pointing at a 10-5-E Delivery Line) is really 'out of whack' with the Target Line, and this makes the alignment difficult for beginning Hitters. Nevertheless, Homer Kelley felt that ultimately, in the hands of the Hitting Master, the Impact Address position was preferred.

2. Remember, no matter what Release Type and Release Point are employed, the Swinger's Snap Load overcomes the initial inertia of the Clubhead at the Top and Loads the Lag. And it is done by the Pivot, not the Hands. This 'Instant Acceleration' (10-19-C) is very desirable for the Swinger and sets up the entire Centrifugal Downstroke Release Sequence (6-M-1). Longer term, the Swinger will almost certainly customize the Pattern to incorporate first, the Non-Automatic Snap Release and later, the Automatic Snap Release. The Non-Auto Sweep variation is listed in the Basic Pattern as the first step -- maximum conscious control -- on the road to mastery of the more sophisticated Snap Releases.

Great stuff there...I was always under the impression that 12-1-0 and 12-2-0 was the standard to "attain" to. New perspective there!! Major fog lifting...now I see what Mr Kelly meant by not customizing until expert stage is reached.

The Meaning of 'Basic' In The Basic Stroke Patterns
 

You are not alone, Justin. Many students are under the same impression. In fact, I personally have been characterized by an Authorized Instructor on another site as one who teaches only the two Basic Patterns. This, of course, is his own limited view and not actual fact.

I thought I remember you saying that 12-1 and 12-2 were optimal patterns. Or are you just saying that those are the ideal starting points, and from there comes customization?

I guess another way of looking at it would be: if I achieve a pattern that is identical to 12-1, are there any modifications that would make that pattern more accurate/powerful/consistent?

Applying Power -- The Master's Application
 

I have written in the past that Homer Kelley felt that these Patterns were indeed optimal and should be customized only as Power demands and Psychological Preferences dictate. I have much I want to share on this subject with our members -- including several direct quotes from Homer himself -- and will do so soon in Yoda's Corner.

Normally, of the three adjectives you used -- more powerful/accurate/consistent -- only the first (more powerful) differentiates the Master's Customized Pattern. And the key here is Maximum Power (6-B-1/2/3/4-A) and Maximum Trigger Delay (6-B-1/2/3/4-C). However, that Power addition comes with the price tag of your other two concerns: Accuracy and Consistency.

I remember the 2004 TOUR Championship in Atlanta. In a field of only thirty players, Tiger Woods finished second. But, in Driving Accuracy, he finished 30th. That's right. Dead last. Am I saying we should feel sorry for Tiger? Please.

I am saying only that there is a price tag for length.

Thanks for the reply Lynn, it makes sense.

Tiger does indeed have some driving problems...have you personally seen him hit a fairway yet? :D

Maybe if you are inflexible. If you have any type of flexibility it really isn't that hard.

Fore Right!
 

Nope! I watched him on another three driving holes this year at East Lake. Each was wide right. He did hit the two par three's I watched.

What a price tag!!!

Yeah, a beautiful babe, millions of dollars and one of the top athletes in the world!!! Hmmmmmm...

It's Tiger's Par 5 record that seperates him from the rest of field.

DG

Lovin' It Long
 

Even the great Tiger Woods is not exempt from the Power-Control trade-off. He would hit more fairways if he rev'ed back and hit it shorter. But he has made a conscious decision not to do so and, in fact, has built his Game around that decision. For example, the special grooves on his wedges cause the Ball to spin too much off the short grass of the fairway, but they enable him to control the Ball far better from his most usual landing area, the long grass of the rough.

And no one would argue that, at least in his case, the decision to forego greater accuracy in exchange for greater distance is wrong. As you have pointed out, the 'spoils of war' are evident.

I too have found that length off the tee offsets accuracy problems. The country club that I worked at this summer had 27 holes, with each combo of 18 totaling about 6700 yards from the back tees. Even on an off day with the driver, I found myself so far down the hole it wasn't a big problem. As long as you didn't crank it too deep into the trees there was usually an open line to the hole. I personally would rather be 110 yards out from the rough instead of 150 out from the fairway.

Especially when you're playing from "country club rough" (where I hear about it in the golf shop if Mr. and Mrs. Smith think it's too penal), the advantage is definitely to have power instead of perfect accuracy. Bomb it, find it, wedge it onto the green.

End Vs Top... Power Difference
 

In light of watching the Hull/Blake video that just went up I'd like to revisit this "end vs top" discussion. Lynn and Jeff talk about the almost imperceptible difference in distance that can be achieved with a properly executed Acquired Motion versus a Total Motion swing. Seems like VJ talked about that in one of his vids as well.

If that's the case, is the added motion of going to End versus Top on the backswing for a Swinger advantageous?

Thanks,

CG

bump...
 

I've been experimenting with this at the range after watching the videos. Applying the same lag pressure, the difference between my punch and when I go to the top is at most 1 club (depending on ball position and trajectory). For me, there is no discernable distance difference between end vs. top; if anything I hit it consistently purer, straighter, further and with better trajectory and sizzle when I stop at the top.

So why go to the end??

bump
 

Would love to hear some more input on this as well. BTW - I meant Acquired Motion, not Basic Motion.

CG

could have something to do with rotating the lag pressure point. remember #3 supports the secondary lever in swinging.