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What's going on with your guy C. Howell? Did you see how he got robbed Sunday? Will he be able to get back on track after being "delagged?" Is he still under Lead? I was glad to see him back in the hunt. Hopefully it will be more and more often. Regards, Richard |
Mizuno,
I know he(Mr. Leadbetter) did try to do that with Charley Howell(de-lag). It's really the Release more than Lag. I think he wants the flat left/bent right at Impact, with slight forward lean of the shaft. I saw one other guy that he was trying to change this on. He actually had a de-lagging drill for him. This guy had a Snap Release, and huge forward lean of the shaft at impact. His head did drop a lot on the downswing, I suppose to match up the Radius. The fellow I saw working with him, just had him widen his stance, and move the ball Up a little(with a driver). He told him to leave the Release and Lag alone! |
12,
I hope he's doing well because he's rejected delagging, rather than in spite of it. |
lagster,
Howell has the best combination of sustained max wristcock and max delay snap release that I've seen. Whether Leadbetter wants him to reduce or leak wristcock, change to a sweep release, or go to an earlier snap release, it's like someone painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa. |
Gentlemen.
Great correspondence!!! May I.... contribute perhaps some food for thought? There are many advantages to a "Full Sweep" Loading Action 1. It's easy to Trace the plane Line with the Sweetspot Plane with #3PP 2. It's easy to establish the L/R Wrist Alignments - early on 3. It's easiy to monitor the Fanning Motion of the Right Forearm 4. It's easy to monitor the Start-Up swivel for Standard Wrist Action 5. It's easy to move an"Effectively Lighter Clubhead Mass"up the plane 6. It helps maintain a more "Centered" motion of head, eyes, + ears 7. It helps maintained a more uniform pivot of the hips - Less Slide in Backstroke Arc. 8. It helps stabilize the Center of Gravity for the motion about the lower axis 9. It helps provide a Backstroke Arc that is more closely related to the downstroke Arc--Keeps the pulley sizes more closely a like. 10.Keeps the Hand speed at a more managable pace through Start-Up 11 Keeps the arc of the right elbow at a more uniform radius to the ribcage or Torso for Pitch Basic. 12. Helps keep the circumference of the Shoulder Turn more uniform aroung the upper axis located at the spine between the shoulders 13. It helps to maintain a stable radius for the knees and ankles 14. It helps control the amount of loading action for both float loading and drag loading - (7-22) "The amount of loading can be controlled by the SPEED of the entire motion, or by the sharpness of the specific procedure, or BOTH - Sergio's change from Downstroke Side with both Float and Drag Loading....The solution... Move toward Full Sweep. I spoke with Bobby Clampett at Kingsmill a couple years back and also played 18 holes with him and one of the component changes was a move away from snap to Full Sweep. Now there is a " Battle tested Machinist"! 15. Easier to control baskstroke length...Ever tried playing the wedge game with a snap loading procedure. Random is probably as close as you can get and still maintain control. 16. Gives you less compensations and components to change when switching from snap loading that persimmon driver that we all still carry in our bags and full-sweeping that X-Stiff D-4 Vokey Design Sand Wedge that has a custom sole configuration that matches both a Digging and/or Sliding style of technique--Versatlity is Mandatory!!! 17. It helps maintain Power Package structure a little easier than its's Big Brother the Snap who if loaded to sharply will collapse the alignments of the Flying Wedges during a Change of Direction if loded to quickly or sharply... Then you got nothing but a "flimpsy" power package structure to "Bunt" the ball aroung the golf course. 18. Theres nothing wrong with keeping the club within one's capacity to monitor the 3 Functions via one's level of proprioception(Feel or Awareness of one's own body in 3 Dimensional Space) ie. Monitoring SKILLS! Sorry, to be long winded, but all my post are... because I need to learn to say the least to gain the most!!!! Sorry, Michael I still haven't learn that lesson yet! Personally, I prefer Random Sweep back and down for Hitting and Full Sweep Back and whatever I choose for downstroke for swinging...Chuck and Lynn really opened my eyes to random on downstrke for swinging, It's nice with a wrist throw....Very Nice indeed!!! Sincerely, Annikan |
Thanks annikan
At the moment i am starting the book and concentrating on the swinging stroke. I positively dislike snap loading however and always swing better with sweep or randon loading. Good to see an expert using the sweep when swinging. The sad thing is i would like to assemble my swing as per chapter 12 but the one thing i don't find working for me is snap loading. If you would be kind enough to answer a couple of questions
1. How badly am i affecting my stroke compensation wise by not using snap loading (Recommended procedure) for swinging? I know it is all about having a stroke with the minimum compensations possible. 2. What differences might i expect between my stroke and the recommended? 3. Will it take much longer to learn? Regards John |
Lagster,
I am not familiar to what Mr. Haney teaches... I've never watched or heard him. I'm not qualified to make a judgement!!! He must be an expert if Tiger Woods is his coach. I did see his last book, saw a dirty picture in there.... that said "Yes" ...showed it to my mother who taught Plane Geometry in High School and she said that..." Congruent Planes have the same angle in degrees but are "NOT In The Same PLANE"" ....Two different Planes with the same angle running parallel to each other. He also showed a nice picture and said "NO" .... I showed this picture to my mother who has a math degree, not sure what level....She said the "Nice" picture was nice and shouldn't be a "NO". A plane is a flat surface that must possess 3 non-colinear points! - MOM Mr. Haney's description sure isn't like 2-F ... 2-F is NICE and is definitely a "YES" in my book. Will this help Tiger Woods or hurt him....I sure am a fan....hate to see anything bad happen to him...My friends on the PGA Tour tell me he is really a good guy once you get to know him....Hope this is his year!!!! Just Plane confused, Annikan |
Mizuno,
I agree with you about Charles Howell. Skywalker, I noticed that Bobby Clampett was using more of a Random Load in the U.S. Open a couple of years ago at Pebble Beach. He looked good, and played very well. He looked like he had gotten his old Snap Load so deleberate, that it would be a timing problem. Mr. Leadbetter tried to get me to Sweep Load years ago, but I had a lot of trouble with it. He also wanted Double Wrist Action. At the time I did not know it, but I was using sort of a Snap Load, and probably had an arched Left Wrist at the Top, and so called shut face. This was probably a carry over fron some very early" Square to Square" training. What are the KEYS to SWEEP LOADING in your opinion? When I try it, it usually tends to mess up my Down Stroke Loading and RELEASE feel, which is probably a little FLOAT, and then goes more towards RANDOM than SNAP RELEASE. Also... what about the DOUBLE WRIST ACTION, some seem to do it very well, and still achieve the Flat Left/Bent Right Impact? Thanks, lagster |
Bagger,
Sorry I've caused this mess....I'll try to do better...It's just that "darn yellow book" does it everytime....I start on a certain topic and end up somewhere else... never getting back to what I was originally searching for until days, weeks, months, even years later. I'll take responsibility for this ... Back to 10-6-D ....I see it a lot... As a matter of fact, conducted Stroke Pattern checkliss 12-0 on last 4 students....3 were using turning shoulder plane to try and keep"IT" in front of them!!! Swinging the clubhead straight back and up while the clubshaft making a motion on a "moving" Inclined Plane with Vertical Force.... Some used the left arm swing plane version.... others keeping that Single Wrist action under the club.... There are we back to 10-6-D. Again, why do you'all think this so popular? Aplogies, Annikan |
Follow the yellow brick road
No problemo and no apologies needed.
It is extremely easy to move from topic to topic when discussing a component because there are 24 interelated components and variations inside them! But once we make a move into another area, time to take it up in another thread. Everyone, keep up the great dialog!!! :D I'll move a few of these around and delete my posts here in the mean time. :-k Bagger |
Lagster,
As stated before I am not an expert and not one on Full Sweep Loading, However, I'll share some insight! As a former Head Instructor of one of the largest Golf Schools on the market for 4 years I had been blessed with the oppourtunity to "test" the machine concepts and components on a lot of students including many Ladies, juniors , and Senior level golfers..I have always been one to collect data to help support my findings.... This data is in the form of before and after swings (2 per student) stored in V1 Digital Coaching System or on paper in Pictures.... Some conclusions: Field Survey: average of 150 ladies per school approximately 5 5-Day schools in the month of May. 2 Junior golf camps with approximatley 90 kids, and several 3-day schools with anywhere from 1-20 senior level golfers throughout the year. ***Not every golfer was taught Full Sweep loading for their Full stroke Pattern, but they were taught it for Stage 2 -= Acquire Motion sized golf strokes for wedge and bunker play....Some kept this procedure for Stage 3 ...their Total Motion. I will give you a very "reduced" list of advantages; Full Sweep loading posed a few advantages that were tested. 1. Made the "effective weight of the club "Lighter" easier to generate motion....Students checked for assembly point at the Side.... What is the first letter in the words Lightly , Loaded, Lever... Yes .... "L" that is all they had to make with the left arm flying wedge... and they didn't even know what the left arm flying wedge is/was or even if it existed...."L" that is easy!!! 2. It helped them get the Clubshaft "On-Plane" early to ensure that it was on plane or closer than they were.... For some ....just don't get the visual equivilents of 2-J-3 on the ground or the face of the Plane... they just cannot see even if it is explained and right their in front of them...Much like God's Word... they just don't get itor see it right away! 3. It helps establish Power Package Structure early and helps conrtol the amount of loading that takes place by the speed and/or sharpness of the procedure... Shorter swings that are not loaded with Full Sweep ...feel like a very heavy 20 ft 2X4 that you just can't get going because of a High Moment of Inertia...Lots of Mass... Can't get it going. Full Sweep tend toward a slower or more gradual Hand Speed...But not always written in stone. In Summary, 1. Lighter and can be Loaded earlier 2. On-Plane earlier 3. Helps control Structure and Swing Length Well that's all based on Actual Application...Not Theory !!! Probably, some theory can prove me wrong and that's okay... There is strength in Numbers .... Approxiimately 750 Ladies over 4 years = Approximatley 3000 Ladies, ....Aproximately 180 Juniors over 4years = Approximately 720 Juniors and I can't give you the numbers for those who participated in our year long 3-day schools....But any way a lot of " Different stroke patterns filmed, studied, adjusted, and re-adjusted not including private lessons...Just Golf School attendees... Full Sweep- Loading whether you like it or not CAN work ...HAS worked and is SUCCESSFUL for a lot of people and makes the game more enjoyable for them...That's what its all about anyway...The Love of the Game!!! Little Full...Lotta "Sap" Annikan |
If your not flexible and don't understand the knee anchor concept, snap loading can make you bob your head and shoulders which leads to off-plane motions....see 1-L-2.
DG |
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