The 160-yard chip...
 

With a 5-iron, that is...

With my layman's knowledge of The Golfing Machine, coupled with Tomasello's "hit" video sequence, I am now able to punch low trajectory "chips" with scary accuracy. At most it's a 60-70% effort motion - simply curling the right arm, slight lead wrist cock, incidental shoulder turn, slight counter-rotation of club face, and simply transporting the flying wedges via body pivot, thinking "down and out" with trail arm thrust. Feeling is that the body leads and the hands lag behind. Low finish. Pure striking.

Now what? I'm leaving a lot on the table with only 70% effort. I certainly can take a 5-iron further than 160. But if I conciously try to increase shoulder turn, increase backswing height, hit harder, etc. - it all falls apart. I feel throw-away and I physically see and feel the lead wrist collapse, and the clubhead whips in front of my body and yuck.

Can a fellow hitter out there tell me how to amp it up a notch without losing it all? I feel I'm close...

First post - great forum fellas.

wicker1000

Thanks For Your First Post,, Wicker1000, and...
 

Wicker, can give us some background info on your experience with TGM, you seem to understand the basic concepts of TGM fairly well for a first time poster.

I know Yoda is the master, but i don't feel finish swivel is THAT important in hitting.

Just make sure you get to both arms straight and just the momemtum of you thrusting to both arms straight will take you into whatever finish your "finish" is.

Ya I don't get it in Hitting either....I think it's kinda weird actually.....I like to hold the FLWrist.

Yoda,
Regarding "finish swivel"...

I use club-face counter-rotation, with layback occurring through and past impact. IMHO this is one of the reasons I am getting the lazer chip-like accuracy. The feeling is very much trail shoulder "under", with my trail wrist actually slightly supinated at the "arms straight" post impact position - counter rotation. This would not seem to lend itself to a swivel (as in 4-D-0) as I understand the motion. Perhaps this is why I am not able to amp it up a notch - or perhaps I just need some fog cleared. Should I dump the counter-rotation?

Delaware Golf: To answer your question, I've been "in and around" TGM for a couple years - either studying folks like Evershed, Doyle, Tomasello, etc. - or in trying to grasp the yellow book directly. Recently I've started to see some tangible results with hitting, and I'm eager to take it to the next level.

Thanks folks.
wicker1000

Homer Kelley's $5 Swivel Lesson
 

Hitting or Swinging, the Finish Swivel is the bridge between the end of the Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight position) and the Finish. In my experience, it is a huge missing piece in the action of most players. Homer Kelley thought so, too, and that is why he included it in the 45 mission-critical items in the Mechanical Checklist For All Strokes (12-3).

In fact, Homer related this story of how he worked with a student to achieve a sufficient amount of the correct Finish Swivel.

Homer: More Swivel.

Student: More?

Homer: More.

Student: More?

Homer: More!

Finally the student was able to complete the assigned task, and both the student and Homer were delighted. Of the session, Homer said:

"I learned more about golf on that day than on any other...he paid me five dollars, too!"

The Finish Swivel After Vertical Hinging
 

The TGM term for your "counter-rotation" is Vertical Hinging. Its Clubface Layback does promote accuracy, but at the expense of distance (as you have discovered). In essence, it is controlled Steering (3-F-7-A).

When you have reached the end of the Follow-Through and desire a longer Finish, it is important to Finish Swivel. This is true regardless of the Hinge Action employed. Check out my free video Yoda of Arabia in The Gallery and see how it's done. In this clip, I demonstrate from a target-view how the proper Swivel after a Vertical Hinge Action is accomplished. While this demonstration is done in the Sand, the principle holds true for the longer Shots from turf that you have described.

can some one please explain the advantages of the finish swivel? is it an anti-steering or just a reroute on plane? or a means to keep that wet mop dragging through?

Challenge for Yoda
 

How do you get a 'flipper' to perform the Finish Swivel and at the same time having them sustain their Clubhead Lag Pressure all the way to the Finish (Clubhead Lag is never 'Released' intentionally)?

Why Finish Swivel?
 

The Finish Swivel with its Flat Left Wrist -- Visual or Geometric -- enables the Clubhead to complete its On Plane Overtaking of the Hands while maintaining the Rhythm of the Stroke -- the In Line condition of the Left Forearm and Clubshaft. It is integral to the operation of the Golfer's Flail and the Endless Belt Effect (Sketch 2-K #1/#6)

In my experience if you have a pretty sound hitting procedure i see personally no difference in ball flight/distance/etc with a finish swivel.

In swinging i do, hitting no.

Maybe i'm confusing what the finish swivel is. I'll go check

After working on FINISHING SWIVEL and tweaking from vertical to ANGLED HINGING, and employing a slightly flatter downswing plane...

That 160-yard 5-iron chip became a 185 YARD LAZER BEAM that stuck the green and set up a birdie putt!! Granted, I got all of that one...but I expect more of the same.

How sweet it is! Thanks Yoda for the suggestions.:o

wicker1000

This Chicken has Wings!
 

Not a challenge for Yoda at all, but a challenge for Bagger which I'm about to overcome. The egg hatched on this subject recently and now it's just a matter of execution.

To avoid the Number One malfunction which is Steering, you must follow the prescription in 3-F-7-A.

Once you have removed steering from your swing, the finish swivel is just a natural recocking of the flat left wrist back up the plane. The roll is a natural result of your hinge action rhythm.

But, none of this is possible unless your right forearm and #3 pressure point are tracing the plane line past impact and into the follow-through. Steering will cause a bent left wrist and throwaway. In my case, the right forearm moves back inside the plane by a few inches (traces inside and left of the plane line) right after impact. The finish swivel becomes distorted. I have a slight chickenwing left arm and an artifical hard roll of the hands to keep the momentum going into the finish.

As soon as I'm cured, I'll post the before and after. Shouldn't take long now that the Chick has hatched.

Bagger

how do you drill in the finish swivel then? am i blunt with my posts or what? lol

Wicker Wonders
 

Welcome you are, Wicker! Happy your success makes me! :D

You more than likely got those extra yards from the better compression of the angled hinge. :)

The Rest of the Story
 

Jim,

No doubt, Angled Hinging results in less Clubface Layback (and hence more distance) than does Vertical Hinging. But, that is not the whole story here.

Try this little experiement:

Hit two full shots with a five-iron using Angled Hinging. On the first, stop at the end of the Follow-Through. On the second, complete the Stroke with a Finish Swivel. Determine for yourself which Stroke yielded the greater distance and report back. Thanks!

:)

Yikles.....you can't swing too hard if you wanna stop at Follow Through (both arms straight)....

No one answered this question.
 

No answer to this question?

Hi Loren,

Try releasing the right hand during impact.
In my teaching experience, it is the unruly right hand that causes the left hand and arm to malfunction.
Doing so, you will notice that the left wrist will remain flat all the way to the finish.

I was taught this drill personally by Gregg McHatton, GSED.

The Myth of the Right Hand 'Release'
 

You do not execute a correct Finish Swivel by 'releasing the Right Hand.' You execute a correct Finish Swivel by Rolling and Re-Cocking the Flat Left Wrist.

And that is how it should be learned.

Except in a deliberate Throwaway procedure or perhaps to a degree in a Right Arm Swing, there is no 'release' of the Right Hand during Impact.

There is a Release of the Cocked Left Wrist as the Clubshaft seeks its In-Line condition with the Left Arm, i.e., Full Extension.

There is the Release of the Turned Left Hand as it Rolls and allows the Clubhead to overtake the Hands.

And, for Hitters, there is the Active Release of the Bent Right Elbow as the Right Triceps straightens the Right Arm and drives the heel of the Right Hand against the Left Hand thumb.

But...

There is no release of the Right Hand, the Bent Right Wrist and the Clubhead Lag Pressure Point (Pressue against the forefinger).

Ideally, the Right Wrist is never Cocked (Perpendicular Motion) during the Backstroke -- so it cannot be Uncocked during the Downstroke. Instead, it is only Bent (Horizontal Motion) -- and that Bent condition is maintained through Impact and for as long as possible into the Follow-Through. There is no Flattening through Impact (also a Horizontal Motion) because any Flattening of the Right Wrist becomes Left Wrist Bend.

Throughout the Stroke, the Right Forearm Flying Wedge and its alignments support the Left Arm Flying Wedge and its alignments. And through Impact, it assures an On Plane Motion by Tracing the Straight Line Base Line of the Inclined Plane.

From the Top, the Right Forearm Flying Wedge only Rotates (Rolls to the left). The Right Wrist does not Flatten nor does it Uncock.The Left Arm Flying Wedge only Uncocks and likewise Rolls. Consequently, the Left Wrist never Bends.

Any other movement invites Horizontal Motion through Impact.

And that spells Geometric disaster.

one armed swing?
 

Greg has also shown me this drill and I think when compda said "release", he was actually meaning to let go of the club with your right hand completely.

Correct me if I'm wrong compda?

btw, some great info in your response there Yoda! :)

Tower of Babel Redux
 

Well, that would explain things.

However, when you do such a drill and physically 'let go' of the club with the Right Hand -- obviously emphasizing the Pivot, its Transport of the Power Package to Release and the subsequent centrifugally-driven Left Wrist Uncock and Left Hand Roll -- remember that you have also forfeited the Right Hand's Lag Pressure Point. And since Lag Pressure is the basis of the Golf Stroke, it must at some point be recaptured in the mind of both the Student and the Instructor.

In any event, this conversation once again highlights the need for a unified Golfing Terminology. The word 'Release' in TGM has a very specific meaning -- an Out-of-Line Condition seeking its In-Line Condition. And that meaning is far removed from a physical letting go of the club.

If we don't speak the same language, how can we possibly communicate?

I have personally experienced some very good ball striking with this method in the past. However, I know it was because my right hand/arm action was not up to scratch and by letting go, it could not disrupt the "centrifugally-driven Left Wrist Uncock and Left Hand Roll". It of course, didn't change the fact that I needed to do more work on my right side's role...:crybaby:

Amen to that Yoda! I would have thought the same thing myself had I not seen and done the drill myself with Greg. It's the same reason I cannot stand reading golf magazines anymore :)


Cheers,

GB

Yoda I know I don't post much on your site. Sorry for that. However this is a great subject. Keep it up! What does this do for your camp when it has a round house effect? I am fully a hitter and it would seem my swivel is full when my left arm is level to the ground.

trace the plane line and...
 

A good feel or visual is to "catch rain drops" with your left palm somewhere between the follow through and the finish. This will aid in your effort to roll the left hand instead of bending it.

It's OK to be blunt powerdraw :) I'm sure at some time or another, we are all guilty of only being able to write something quick and short because we are supposed to be at work, working and get distracted reading LBG! :lol:

GB

busted!
thanks!

Take a look at this beauty I found while scrounging around, digging for the buried treasures.

Damn, that's a good post. I wonder why Homer didn't say the Right Forearm Wedge "Revolves" around the Hinge. I certainly understand his meaning of Roll, but it's confusing to a lot of people.

Man, great find Daryl! :salut:

Kevin

Baton twirl
 

Yoda taught me to twirl the baton with a larger dowel. It took awhile for me to do the backswing, downswing and finish swivel to his satisfaction. Do you have a video of that yoda?

Twirl Your Baton
 

No, David. But I should.

My wife never played golf -- she sustained a neck injury many years ago that prevented it -- but she had a beautiful swing on the practice tee from the very beginning.

Yoda: What a wonderful Release though the Ball. How do you do it?

Mrs. Yoda: "Ball-Thumb", just like twirling a baton.

Yoda: Ball-Thumb? One of your 'majorette' things? Talk to me!

Mrs. Yoda: It's simple: Your Thumb goes where the 'ball' (of the baton) goes. [Demonstrating a left-handed baton twirl and the perfect Left Wrist Roll through Impact.]

:shock:

And so it does.

:golfing_banana:

Right Forearm clubshaft, left wrist club face. This was homers conclusion after an effort to get the right side
to control the face, the whole shebang. Not saying it can't be done though. But the right shoulder can influence things far too easily.

I understand that. I think when people read the word Roll, they think Swivel.

To my thinking: The wedges can only roll and the roll is around the hands. Swivel can not be done to a rffw without cocking/uncocking the right wrist and can not be done to the lfw without bending or arching the left wrist. a "sound geometric" swivel can only take place upon disipation of the wedges- both arms straight. That being said- since we are all built a little different- there is likely "a little" cocking /uncocking of the right hand and a little arching of the left in most swings but it is compensated for well and goes almost un-noticed.

HB

That's why I thought "Revolve" is a better choice of words.

I think if you're stubborn enough you can to a large degree control the face with the right side. But I think you will have a hard time compressing the ball good at the same time. You may find yourself struggling with distance control instead of direction control. Which is OK as long as you're inside 10 feet I guess...

If you really want to have it both ways you can always take the left hand off the club entirely and do a one handed stroke. With some thrustin and some CF it has to be the arm that holds the CF that controls the club face afaics.

I've heard or read in one of Yoda's earlier posts that one of Homers initial Concepts was that the Right Hand controlled both the Clubhead and Clubface.

Maybe Yoda will comment.

How...?
 

Re: The general L/R control/attachment discussion.
The/my first reaction is- Please define the new machine. What can be done and its practicality depends on the NEW machine. What is it's structure? Will it accomodate the imperatives? And Even if it has the capability will it be practical/functional for G.O.L.F.??
Got to get the "easy" questions out of the way first.??

HB

A Two-Handed Game
 

Actually, what he had hoped to discover was an efficient way to put control of both the Clubface and Clubhead into the same hand. He didn't care which hand -- left or right -- just the same hand.

Over time, he concluded that it could not be done, at least not as well as dividing the responsibilities between the two hands. Hence, his dictum:

"Left Hand Clubface. Right Hand Clubhead."

:golfcart2: