How Long Should the Left Wrist Remain Flat
 

Yoda wrote (From TGM Forum January 29, 2004

"How Long Should the Left Wrist Remain Flat"


The Left Wrist remains Flat through Impact, through the end of the Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight / 8-11) through the Flat and Swiveling-Back-On Plane Flat Left Wrist -- I know that is an "extra" Flat but I can't help myself and neither could Homer! -- until the Club flashes around the Hands. [The Right Wrist loses its Bend as the Left Wrist completes its Hinge Action and Swivels back onto the Plane.] Then, and only then, does the Flat Left Wrist Bend -- as the Right Wrist Flattens against the Plane -- and that Left Wrist Bend quickly returns to Flat as the really good players restore their Finish alignments.

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From Brian's Forum:

February 4, 2005


quote:Originally posted by brianman

I hate 'fudged' swivels.

By fudged, I mean swivels with very bent left wrists.

I would even like Lynn Blake to do this more to my liking, but, obviously, he has a great move nonetheless.

So...I like getting people to swivel with a flat left wrist.

When they do....if they have ANY leakage at all....they hit it hard left.

Then they get better impact alignments and follow-through alignments...

because...

THEY HAVE TO!!!!!!!!!!!

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Yoda Responded:

Great stuff, Brian, and I mean it, great stuff.

And I'm continuing to work on my 'Leakage' move. My first professional lesson was at age 17 with George Preisinger at the old Marietta Country Club in Marietta, Georgia. His daughter, Carol, is now a Golf Magazine Top 50 Instructor at the now-renamed same club. Anyway, he got me to keep that Left Wrist Flat and turn it to the ground through Impact. And believe me -- you are very right -- any leakage' -- and maybe even without any but with an extra good Swivel -- and I was 'Fore Left!'

Along the way, I learned that a Swivel Action was not a Hinge Action, but neither was a Bent Left Wrist an acceptable substitute for a good Finish Swivel. The good news is that I don't hit 'rope hooks' any more, but I'm still trying to get it right. I'm only 58, so I've got a few more years yet!

Meanwhile, I'm resigning myself -- somewhat -- to the Retief Goosen look through Impact, especially when I Swing. I'm not quite as bad, but I still don't like it...

But at least my Left Arm is straight!


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Yoda,

Is the bending of the left wrist in the TGM post the same undesireable bending referenced in your's and Brian's recent posts?

EC

Cocking -- And Re-Cocking -- The Flat Left Wrist
 

No, Eddie. The referenced Bending would take place after the Hinge Action but before the Finish Swivel (back to the Plane) is completed. Admittedly, these are split-second differentiations, but they are necessary for Precision Golf. Why? Because the Ball knows.

However, programming correctly in this area requires that you know exactly what you are trying to achieve and how it looks. There is a gross misconception here -- striving to retain a visually Flat Left Wrist when the Left Wrist Re-Cocks On Plane during the Finish -- that really hurts a lot of players.

Remember, the Left Wristcock is a Vertical Motion, even when executed on an Inclined Plane. This is the same Motion the Left Wrist makes when hammering a nail, and the Cocked Left Wrist should look identical in both cases. And any degree of Left Wrist Turn when the Grip is taken (in Impact Fix) must be retained as Left Wrist Bend when the Wrist is Cocked. This is true wherever the Cocking takes place -- during the Backstroke Cocking or during the Finish Re-Cocking. In other words, the key thing is that the Left Arm and Club remain in the same Vertical Plane, the Plane of the Left Wristcock Motion, i.e., the Plane of the Left Arm Flying Wedge. Only in this manner can the Left Arm and Clubshaft remain In Line and the Stroke have true Rhythm (6-B-3-0).

In this circumstance, then, attempting to maintain a visually Flat Left Wrist during the Re-Cocking will actually result in an Arched Left Wrist. This Horizontal Grip Motion (4-0) puts the Clubshaft out of the Vertical Plane of the Left Arm and thereby disrupts the Left Arm Flying Wedge. In other words, you are trying to make the Club do something is simply does not want to do.

And that's not a good thing.

Yoda,

You say, "The referenced Bending would take place after the Hinge Action but before the Finish Swivel (back to the Plane) is completed. Admittedly, these are split-second differentiations, but they are necessary for Precision Golf. Why? Because the Ball knows."

In both cases the Ball is gone before the Bending, so the Ball CAN'T know.

Getting To Know You
 

The Golf Stroke is an integrated whole, and always before any Action there must be a 'preparing.' It is this preparatory move during Impact that the Ball knows.

I've seen plenty of photos and swing sequences of Tour players with post followthrough flat right wrists , and bent back left wrists , with both hands on plane. I assumed TGM taught that the flying wedge wrist alignments of the bent right wrist and flat left wrist remained all the way to finish. Therefore, since almost all Tour players weren't TGM trained, I also assumed their post - followthrough positions were from 'traditional' training.

Could trying to force myself to maintain a flat left wrist and bent right wrist all the way to finish cause or exacerbate my pulls and hooks?

THx

To get me to swing correctly Manzella made me learn how to keep a FLW throughout the entire swing and fnish. It is possible but it does put a bit of strain on your left shoulder.

Now that i've learned how to control my clubface i let it bend when it wants to because i know its flat at impact.

Re: Getting To Know You
 

I thought we were talking about, how the ball could know about a Left Wrist bend, which happens past separation. What on earth does this last statement have to do with that????

Come To Papa!
 

When your object is to drink tea, would you reach for your fork...or your glass?

Yoda what is the preparatory move in this case?

Reverse Rolling
 

Steering (3-F-7-A).

Re: Cocking -- And Re-Cocking -- The Flat Left Wrist
 

Yoda,

All of the above I understand and is congruent with my experience and with your original post on the TGM forum. I interpreted Brian's post referencing your motion as less than desireable for his liking, ie.. he seems to be condoning a flat left wrist at ALL times; all the way to finish, and your subsequent reply seemed to acquiesce to that view. Perhaps the operative word is "seemed" .

EC

A predisposition of an action or intention before Impact which will cause the Left Wrist to bend or not to bend past separation notwithstanding, I am saying this - if the physics of the stroke are identical to the point past separation at which the bend will or will not take place, the ball flight will be identical. The ball doesn't know of this predisposition, it only knows what the clubhead does to it in the Impact Interval. And it is not affected in any way, whether the Left Wrist bends past separation or not.

Let's take Couples for example. At the both arms straight position past separation, his Left Wrist is well bent. Now he could preprogram himself to swivel prior to that, but still past separation, so that the bend did not happen, but the ball flight would be the same - the ball wouldn''t "know" thet the swivel happened.

Re: Cocking -- And Re-Cocking -- The Flat Left Wrist
 

Even Manzella's mentor Ben Doyle says the left wrist is bent twice in the swing, address and back up into the follow through.

Hitting All The Stops Along The Way
 

I agree that "if the physics of the stroke are identical to the point past separation at which the bend will or will not take place, the ball flight will be identical." The problem is that they won't be. You just don't hit a perfect Golf Shot and then, all of a sudden, do a bad Swivel. A good Golf Shot demands a good Finish Swivel for the Club to take the proper route through Impact. The Finish is "the Precision Destination of the Downstroke Blast-off from the Top," not just "Impact fall-out" (2-N-0).

If the Finish Swivel has not been properly programmed (consciously or subconsciously), then it will not be properly executed, and the Club will not -- indeed, cannot -- take the required route from the Top. What will be executed is the classic Chicken Wing, and Steering and Quitting through Impact will be the ineveitable enablers.

As far as Freddie Couples goes, per the explanation in my prior post, his Bent Left Wrist is entirely correct due to his Turned Left Wrist in the Grip (Strong Double Action 10-2-D). It would not be correct for a Golfer whose Left Wrist was Vertical (Strong Single Action 10-2-B).

For clarification:

Lynn make s a very good swing (and hit) at the ball.

No doubt.

My left wrist is flat a bit longer than Lynn. So what?

Well the so what is just what Lynn is saying, The golf stroke works BACKWARD from a wobbly point and that point---even if it is after imapct---can start to cause problems.

I have had a LOT of success with golfers TRAINING them to keep the FLW through the finish. Like our friend jim_0068, after they LAERN it that way, they then can let it, as Lynn says, do what it wants.

....BUT....

...in the meantime....they are FIXED! :wink:

Three Little Words
 

I have seen many Flat Left Wrists in my time, and I've got to tell you, I've never seen it done better than by Brian Manzella. When he graciously called me from his 21st PGA Coaching and Teaching Summit last month and handed the phone to his mentor, Ben Doyle, the First Authorized Instructor of The Golfing Machine, I was flabbergasted. [There are only a few times in life where that word works. This is one of them.]

My first question?

"Mr. Doyle, how did you teach Brian his Flat Left Wrist?"

His immediate answer:

"Chip. Pitch. Punch."

And there you have it, guys. Fifty years on the Tee in Three Words.

I am humbled.

There's more here. Much more.

Fasten your seat belts.

Bagger.

Trig.

Warp Speed!