Trigger Types and Trigger Delay
 

I find Triggering and Trigger Delay very fascinating..I would like to start a discussion on how the Triggers are employed..then move on to Trigger Delay and then undoing Trigger Delay....


TRIGGER TYPES

THE THROW

10-20-0 GENERAL Five basic procedures are listed for Triggering the Release of the Power Package. Unlisted procedures adopted by players should be noted under “X” classification for Stroke Pattern selections. The five basic procedures are listed in approximately the same order as the Power Package Releases (11-24) to keep these closely related categories parallel. Variations MUST comply with 4-D-0. Study 6-B-0.

10-20-A THE HAND THROW The Hands swing the Club right from The Top. Very hazardous except for well Educated Hands. Accumulator Release is very gradual so they won’t all become empty at – or before – Impact. This classification includes any “Hands Only” Putting Strokes, such as 10-3-E.
For Example:


10-20-B THE RIGHT ARM THROW The Right Arm (6-B-1) simply pushes the Lever Assemblies (6-A) toward Impact with either early or late Release. Usually restricted to Hitting (10-19-A).

10-20-C SHOULDER TURN THROW Sharp initial acceleration of the Shoulder Turn against the #4 Pressure Point Loading motion of the Left Arm (10-11) Automatically throws the Left Arm off the chest when the Pivot acceleration subsides per 10-19-C. See 2-M-4.


THE THROW

10-20-D DELIVERY PATH THROW Wherever the bottom arc of the Delivery Line begins (10-23) – a long arc or short (7-23) – it triggers this Throw automatically. Usually used in combination with 10-20-B for Hitting or with 10-20-C for Swinging.

By deliberately Triggering the Release before the end of the Delivery Path Line, a Non-Automatic version can be produced. This will normally require an adjustment of the Aiming Point also.

10-20-E WRIST THROW Here, the Right Hand remains palm-up to the Plane during the Uncocking of the Left Wrist to produce a Sequenced Release per 2-G and 4-D-0. Especially compatible with Swinging. See 6-H-0-F.

By deliberately initiating the Wrist Roll at any point before reaching the end of the Delivery Path Line, the Non-Automatic version can be produced.



TRIGGER DELAY
I am going to list the Trigger Delay in the release sequence order of #4,#1,#2,#3 for bettter clarity...

#4:6-B-4-C MAXIMUM TRIGGER DELAY is achieved by using either the Standard or Delayed Pivot (to increase the Lag of the Downstroke Shoulder Turn) with a Snap Loading Action (per 7-19-3 and 10-22-C) followed by a Snap Release (10-24-E) with a Pitch Basic Stroke (10-3-B). For Hitters the essential difference is that Loading is per 7-19-1.



#1:6-B-1-C MAXIMUM TRIGGER DELAY is gained by causing the Right Elbow to “Pass the Ball’ – which is the Line-of-Sight-to-the-Ball- before Release. Study 2-N, 3-F-7, 7-8 and 10-14.

#2:6-B-2-C MAXIMUM TRIGGER DELAY is achieved by using an Automatic Snap or Flip Release (10-24-3 or –F).

#3:6-B-3-C MAXIMUM TRIGGER DELAY for Swingers is the use of Trigger Types 10-20-D or 10-20-E for a truly Automatic Snap Release (10-24-E). But the Hitter uses the Right Arm Throw 10-20-B per 6-B-3-A above. And study 7-20 in this connection.

I think the connection in regards to Triggering, Trigger Delay, the Throws is the Endless Belt, its pully size and how it is set up.

I'll try to connect the dots. In the 7th there is an expanded theme of Endless Belt. I think it is hugely misunderstood and overlooked concept of Mr. K's genius.

I'll holla back . . . .

No takers?...

I'll give it a shot in laymans terms...


In reverse...

To delay #3...Come in Hong Kong Phooey until Line of Sight

To delay #2...Use an Automatic Release Type and a late release point

To delay #1 Keep the right elbow bent until Line of Sight of the Ball

To delay #4 Need to increase my Jimmy McLean "X Factor"..LOL:laughing9

So if I do all 4 does this mean I'm Maximum Trigger Happy?

:eyes:

If you had to pick the top 2 to delay . . . which ones would you delay?

annikan skywalker ....... I find Triggering and Trigger Delay very fascinating..I would like to start a discussion on how the Triggers are employed..then move on to Trigger Delay and then undoing Trigger Delay....

Again, I'm confused. Are you asking which Triggers each of us use? Combination 10-20-C then 10-20-E (on my best day :) ).

By the way; great right forearm flying wedge. Who's pic?

I am interested in discussing how to create maximum trigger delay..then undo it...just so I know how to teach people who don't have to do it....and vice versa those who have it and don't want as much.....I don't think it would be advisable to play wedge shots woith maximumtrigger delay..but it would be nice for longer shots...So...this IMO is one reason why great ball stikers have poor wedge play and great wedge players can't strike it with the big toys?


Just an opinion!!!

As far as the Throws..just waitin for a Yoda video with his "Throw Cap" on!!!!!

I pretty sure i get really close to a max trigger delay downswing, not 100% because i haven't video'd but i know how to vary the delay.

One thing that i've been experimenting with is a "throw" from the top. Almost like one slow long "cast" into impact.

However because i'm pivoting and swinging on plane i won't flip, i'll just not delay so much. I find a higher/softer ball flight with not so much loss of distance, as least with the shorter clubs.

Let's put up some vids
 

Any room in this sandbox?

Bagger

2-M-2. POWER REGULATION
6-M-1. DOWNSTROKE SEQUENCE

Acceleration by varying mass not velocity. Increase Pivot Lag or Decrease Pivot Lag (or zero it out). Or use fewer lagging components or more lagging components.
Increase mass to delay a trigger.
Decrease mass to hasten a trigger.

Delay
 

Most of the guys I remember that had/have the Trigger Delay... did not really know how they did it, and some were not even aware they were doing it.

I think that OVER-ACCELERATION would be one of the main things that would prevent someone from having Trigger Delay, as well as LAG. They are kind of related, but I suppose someone could have good Trigger Delay, and still manage to have throwaway.

This is way beyond my knowledge. It was just a try.

I think trigger delay has more to do with staying in sequential order...whereas is one allows "overlap" they are skipping a link in the chain....thus affecting the mass and acceleration as our colleague Daryl pointed out..


Increase Overlap - Increase Thrust
Decrease overlap - Increase Velocity...

Dr. Collards described earlier that overlap deals with simultaneous moton..I believe...but I would welcome correction......:liar:

Any one got any ideas on how to unoverlap someone?

Green Dude are you there?:confused1

I happened to speak with the absent EC on this topic last week. He said that he had made a discovery regarding the D grip and trigger delay. . . Too hard to explain in words. He said he'd have to show me.

I shall seek him out and report back.

EC you are missed.

Get me my belt
 

It is my contention that Trigger Delay and Triggering are very much associated with the Endless Belt and its pulley size.

Here is one of the changes to 2-K in the 7th Edition. It seems to me that the importance of the Endless Belt concept is a theme in the new edition . . .

Another very important element in the generation of Angular Motion is the Endless Belt Effect (Sketch 2-K #6) which is the Physics of the Delivery Paths (7-23). During the straight line portion of the motion (Line Delivery Path) Linear Motion give the Belt and the Clubhead identical MPH speed. When the Belt starts around the Pulley (Release) its MPH does not change (Constant Hand Speed) but the Clubhead goes into an Angular Motion and its Surface Speed becomes proportional to: 1). its Radius, 2). Belt Speed and 3). Pulley diameter. Increasing the diameter and/or the Belt Speed increases Clubhead MPH and vice versa. The Circle Delivery Path is just one big Pulley - no Belt, no Linear Motion and therefore constant Hand Speed and Clubhead Speed (RPM) but different MPH due to different Surface Speeds. It must all comply with 7-23 - which is the Geometry of the Endless Belt Action.

The Endless Belt is applicable to both the Hitter and the Swinger. The Hitter's End is Top - Top of the Line Delivery Path - thus the hands DO NOT go around the top pulley. However the Swinger with his Backstroke ending at End . . the hands go around the top pulley of the belt aparatus. As a result the Swinger uses the Arc procedures in 10-23-C and 10-23-D.

Ok so freakin' what . . .

It would be my contention that Trigger Delay has much to do with #3 in the above quote i.e. REDUCING PULLEY DIAMETER. Here is some additional thoughts added to 2-P The Wrist Cock (LEVER EXTENSION) in the new 7th . . .

Uncocking the Left Wrist is Lever Assembly Extension only. It's appearance of "Overtaking" is incidental because it is actually seeking (Overtaking) its maximum MPH - of Full Extension - not its maximum RPM which it already has by reason of the Flat Left Wrist. So it does not - and must not - affect the Lever Assembly RPM (Endless Belt Effect). The #3 Accumulator is the true Clubhead Overtaking Action by reason of either "Maintaining" or "Returning to" its In-Line relationship (6-B-3-0) and its "Vertical to a Plane" Hinge Action Alignment (2-G). The Lever Assembly Extension RATE aids the #3 Accumulator Action (6-B-3-A) and is regulated by Trigger Delay until FULL EXTENSION per 7-18.

Now another direction in this here very connection . . . It has to do with how the Endless Belt aparatus thingie is set up. Where does the dang thing point???? Well here's another gem from the new book. It relates to Aiming Point and the Angle of Approach . . . and later your On-Plane Right Forearm . . . Per the changes to 6-E-2 Aiming Point Concept:

and the difference in travel distance per degree of Angular Motion because Impact always occurs during the "Pulley" portion of the Endless Belt travel (sketch 2-K #6) regardless of the direction of its Straight Line travel between pulleys (or of the Thrust during the Circle Path per 7-23) because both of those lines represent the True Delivery Paths and move - physically - directly at the point on the Ball through which the Angle of Approach passes even with Aiming Point procedures because The Machine delivers the #3 Pressure Point to Impact Fix Hand Location AT IMPACT with all Delivery Paths, Delivery Lines, Pulley Sizes, etc. because its structure is designed to do just that, hence the importance of a sturdy structure around the Endless Belt machinery. That is what makes the Aiming Point procedure possible at all.

It is very much about your RIGHT ARM . . . more changes to 6-E-2 . . .

"Remember the "identities" of those element of Release. That is - the straight line portion of the Endless Belt locates the required Aiming Point AND VICE VERSA. But is DOES NOT dictate the Endless Belt (Hand) speed. AND VICE VERSA. Summing up the Right Arm action - it is always a straight line effort and/or motion and normally is strictly Clubhead Control. In the meantime the Flat Left Wrist (Clubface Control) under every condition or situation is concerned only with arriving at Impact, Vertical to the ground in the process of executing the selected Hinge Action. So, per 1-F the Hands are correlated but independent of every other factor." Practice every phase, over and over until mastered.

What about the Right Arm it is STRAIGH LINE EFFORT . . . So? Here are more changes to Release Types in 6-N-0 to make the connection:

The earlier in the Downstroke the Release occurs, the larger, longer and slower the Release Arc will be for both Clubhead and Hands. Other things being equal, this will require higher Hand Speed to produce yardages equivalent to that of the short quick arc of Maximum Delay. This involves Angular Speed which is measured by the number of degrees of an Arc through which the motion moves per second. From Release to Impact is just so many degrees of travel – at the Left Shoulder and/or at the Left Wrist. Doubling the travel time (for instance) halves the travel rate. Also see 2-P and 7-23.

"The smaller the Release Arc (Endless Belt Pulley - constant Hand Speed) the faster the Right Elbow must straighten and the faster there will be "Extension" (Lever Assemblies 2-P) and "Overtaking" (6-F #3 Accumulator) until the Right Arm becomes straight. All without affecting The Travel Rate of the Endless Belt."

And same theme in 6-N-0 . . .

With the Endless Belt Effect, The Belt (Hands) and the Clubhead have the RPM but the Surface factor sets in and gives the Clubhead greater MPH – in reverse proportion to the size of the Pulley (the smaller, the faster). That is, raised Hand Position – reducing the Accumulator #3 Travel –plus Trigger Delay. Conversely – a larger Pulley (lowered Hands) requires a higher Handspeed and an earlier Trigger. See 6-B-3-A, 6-F and 6-N-0

Variations in Trigger Delay are possible ONLY beacuse the Cocked Left Wrist allows the Right Elbow to straighten faster than the Left Arm would otherwise allow (6-B-1) and the greater the Delay the more rapid the Paddlewheel Action and the more Swivel-like it becomes without increasing the actual Endless Belt speed of the Left Hand."

Sounds a bit like if you want to jack your Trigger Delay up on Steriodz you get your Right Elbow to be a Navel Seeking Missle.

WOW..:toothy1: we are going somewhere.....Collards..where in the he77 are you...we need some "green vomit" on this....The "Physics of Delivery Paths"

Bucket is headin toward the Buckwheat ...what a freekin post!!!!

How about a Fresca?

Anyone gots some pics to demonstrate pullley sizes?

Ahhh...I'll provide the pics if someone named "Yoda" provides the Documentary!!!!

What trigger type is this sequence - It looks a lil like your hand throw skywalker :)



Go easy though guys - I only play about once a week...lol

Still very good stuff...a gradual release of the accumulators...nothing to be ashamed of there...Mathew....


Here's my swinging motion....Sequential decreased overlap....

As I understand it, we are speaking of triggering the Release, so "trigger delay" is really "release delay".

6-M-1 For maximum Power, the position must be taken that will allow Delay of the Release until all Components, except the Right Foot and the Right Shoulder, have reached, or passed, the Line-of-Sight-to-the-Ball per (6-B-1-C). Then the Accumulators must move very rapidly toward their "In-Line" Position. But none should actually arrive (lose all their Lag and Drag) until well after Impact.

As to "overlap" (continuing 6-M-1)
Power Accumulator Release sequence is #4, #1, #2, #3 - regardless of which ones are being employed. Any Accumulator number may overlap or replace its preceding number but cannot precede it.

I believe the wording does not mean a choice of 'overlap' and 'replace' but one and the same thing, i.e. if it overlaps, it also replaces. So if #3 overlaps #1 the Release sequence is #4, #1. "cannot precede it" implies "#4, #2, #1, #3" (for example) is illogical.

As to the final sentence "Increase Overlap to increase Thrust - decrease Overlap to increase Velocity." has me confused for surely Thrust produces an increase in Velocity ??

I got this one nice :)

Tom Watson





Sergio



Buckle

Weightshift..love it..."Release Delay"...freekin awesome perspective there



Bucket...draw some lines on "Ole Tommy Watson"

You have over estimated my prowess . . . crayon shows up on my computer but nobody else's.

I don't know how to draw lines . . .

Off topic but . . . Check this pic out. Mr. K liked the vertical Left Hand grip of 10-2-B because the Left Hand matches the Clubface.

Would the KNUCKLES of the Left Hand match the face on a Turned Left Hand ala 10-2-D or 10-2-F? Check out Buck at separation . . .

Could you just substitute the left thumb as an additional pressure point to feel the horizontal hinge action if was placed directly aft of vertical... instead of monitoring a left wrist motion using a thumbprint motion instead? - I don't think it will be reliable though....

Center of Swing
 

Do you think that with the Maximim Trigger Delay(LATE HIT), the CENTER OF THE SWING or LOW POINT moves from the LEFT SHOULDER to the LEFT WRIST?

Another thing to consider... with some of the SUPER MAX DELAY people, their spine angle lowers quite a bit on the downswing. Maybe someone can supply some pictures of players that do this(lower), and maybe some that have MAX DELAY that maintain the same spine angle on the downswing as the backswing?

Check these out. I jacked these from our Canada (I said Nad) buddy Birdie Man.

Pay particular attention to the difference in release between Eldrick's Release Motion and Vijay's 2nd Swing Vision. Eldrick makes the move you speak of. Also in Vijay's check out the Sequenced Release. . . Mr. K was a freakin' genius. You can see it clear as day Uncock then Roll.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1Aj22YYI1-Q

From my animation model im building.... not quite sequenced because the left flying wedge goes into the plane at an angle... but the circular wristcock motion is alot closer to the plane than the circular wristroll/turn so the wristcock releases massively initially vs the amount of roll needed to keep it onplane but its not quite sequenced in a purely true and strict sence...only a double wristcock can do that.....

Yes..if the left wrist becomes arched or the hands stop with the clubhead orbitng around a fairly staionary Butt of the Club...but not necessarily with maximum trigger delay ...remember a snap release all the accumulators very rapidly snap itno alignment

"Pass-the-ball"
 

I love your topic on trigger types and delays. This past week
I hit 2000 ball trying to figure out how to get the right elbow
past the line of sight to the ball before release. When I look
at the pictures 8-9, 8-10, in the book, the lady is now where
close to passing the ball with her right elbow before release.
I have been working with the ideas of pushing the elbow through,
more lower body shift to the left, more pivot, and more axis tilt. In your opinion, what was Homers procedure for getting
the right elbow past the ball before release?

Thanks Donn

Yoda?...


Hey little green dude..


Come on out and play!!!!:salut:

Why do you feel the need to get the Right Elbow past the ball?

Thanks for the reply 12 Piece. I looked at Annikan's list
of trigger delays and then read #1: 6-B-C-1. Along that
line, I have always wondered how a hitter with max #1 puuch
stroke, kept the elbow postion "down-and-at-the-side" and
still got the the elbow past the line of sight to the ball
before release to get full use of the #1 accumulator. Hogan
seemed to do it, but he was swinging? Then the question come
up, swingers don't normally use #1 as a primary power source.
His elbow position as on the watch pocket, which I guess, one
could say the elbow is inside the hip? I keep refering to the
topic by Lynn on Hogans Power Source. I have been trying
to drive the elbow with the right knee/foot without distrubing
the anchors. Seems to go along with the the book "Afternoons
with Mr. Hogan" by Vasquez. If you have any ideas, please let
me know. Thanks Donn

DK,

Remember . . . it is line of site to the ball . . . not actually PAST THE BALL. That will get you into "perverted Pitch" elbow . . . equating to Plane Problems and erratic ball flights.

Annikan has a great one for this . . "Get your Right Forearm Flying Wedge VISUALLY past the ball from the golfer's perspective." Remember you eyes are BEHIND the ball . . . so what looks like past really ain't past. Don't overcook it. I did it and have suffered as a result.

I am still somewhat of a pitch perv.

Annikan UNDO vs. Mathew Max-Out
 

How would you get more Trigger Delay in Matthew's Stroke (not saying it needs it)?



How would you get the Trigger Delay OUT of Annikan's motion

So let's see what we can do to Max Out one and Undo the other . . .

Paying particular attention to Annikan's 4th Frame and Mathew's 3rd Frame . . .

Holla back

The key I feel to my stroke, inorder not to have throwaway is to aggressively use my extensor action...constantly pushing downwards hard with my right arm towards the plane line through 'pp3' (instead of pp1) to maintain a flat left wrist. It is also this factor I believe that causes my gradual release. I very much concentrate on the active pressure of the extensor action through pp3 'downwards' towards the plane line. Like your holding a knife in the right hand keep stabbing the pressure downwards with pp3. The right forearm is very active with its extensor action....

Annikan's #4 Accumulator seems more intact compared to Mathew.

Bucket: How would you get more Trigger Delay in Matthew's Stroke (not saying it needs it)?

I'll hazard a guess: introduce him to Drag Loading, for example compare frame 3 with photo 10-19-C #2 (page 195 of the 6th edition)

12 Piece Bucket - I think that you are right on to maintain
the Flying Wedges. Seems like Hogan got his right elbow way
in from the get go (refering to the demonstration on Shells
wonderful world of golf). Interesting, I don't see any of
the pictures in this forum where the guys get the elbow inside
the line of sight before release. Looking at previous pictures, Seems that Lynn gets the right elbow inside the line of sight before release, but Ted doesn't? The trick has to be able to do it while maintaining the flying wedges. Thanks again, Donn

I suspect his left hand grip needs to be adjusted a bit, too much in the palm, heel pad not on top. Without that change he can't get any more delay than he has now. (noted in other thread re: his sequence)