Advanced quiz question for you all....
 

Im working the next three days but decided to create a question for you whilst im away....

The question is....

When accumulator 3 is fully loaded - what is the relation between its plane relative to the inclined plane?

I'll give the answer in 3 days time if no one has got it yet...

Enjoy... :)

accumulator 3 plane should trace the Inclined plane?

The clubshaft is on plane and the #acc angle is above the plane.

Why does the answer matter?

It is a test to make your minds work and test the overall understanding of alignments that make up G.O.L.F... If I was creating questions for a written test at a true GSED level - this is the type of question I would ask. This is something you have to work out - the correct answer is not directly in the book.

And sorry guys, The first two answers are incorrect....

First of all the question is quite vague and perhaps incomplete...

but here's a college try...the #3 accumulator and it's corresponding pressure point is loaded per selected plane angle and per 7-19 procedure..in other words less turn/roll for the turning shoulder plane..more turn/roll for the elbow plane and more for the hands only plane...Now IMO opinion the corresponding pressure point for each accumulator is what is actually loaded ..not the accumulator...So in this case the the right forefinger and it's location side for hitting and top knuckle per swinging is what is loaded....the pressure increases on the pressure pointwith changes of direction and or changes of acceleration during Start down and varies during the release roll for the swinger and increases on the aft side with direct drive of the #1 Pressure Point and indirect drive for the hitter...

So the question shouldn't read..."When accumulator 3 is fully loaded - what is the relation between its plane relative to the inclined plane?"

But rather... "When the #3 Pressure Point is fully loaded- what is it's relation between it's plane relative to the Inclined Plane?...Hell it's different for hitters and swingers...Different for the Hands Only,Elbow Plane,Turned Shoulder and the Turning Shoulder Plane...

Remember very easy concept..

Pressure points are what get loaded...Accumulators are what gather...

"With few exceptions the entire Left Arm, the Clubshaft and the back of the Left Hand are ALWAYS positioned against the same flat plane - the plane of the Left Wristcock motion.
At the same time........." Homer Kelley.

Therefore, the flat plane of this assembly is laid against, or parallel to, the inclined plane once it comes into motion and, effectively, they become one.

I sence alot of fog :)

I'll restate the question...

What is the relationship between the plane of accumulator no.3 (which can be the plane of the left wristcock motion also - that was a good identification but doesn't show the relation between the two) when it is turned to the plane (hence fully loaded) and the inclined plane. What is the relationship between these two planes....

My question is not vague....

paralell sounds right

SweetSpot
 

pp#3 is aligned with the sweetspot plane. The ball is struck on that plane not where the shaft lies.

I would say when the left hand is turned to the plane it is parallel . . . but also assuming that you have the same amount of #3 at fix as actual impact it also determines the Plane Angle . . . Lower hands = More #3 and thus more towards the Elbow or Hands Plane . . . Higher hands with the less #3 result in a Turned Shoulder Plane angle.

It is a different question!:)

Bucket..isn't that what I stated previously....I smell what your steppin in!!! #3 it's angle and range of motion varies depending on the plane angle ...As stated above and previously... Inclined Plane...verify sweetspot plane and/or shaft plane...remember the shaft may move from its own plane and rotate onto the plane of the sweetspot...So when you are referring to Inclined Plane? Sweetspot or Shaft? Usually when Turned to the Inclined plane they are in the same plane!!!

They are congruient. In line but not on the same line.

#3
 

1/2 way back until 1/2 way down- flatter and more closed.

At least I'll start there- have to make a living first before I take a look at the whole thing- gotta go - the IRS and Bank are knocking on the front door- wait a minute the adrenaline was flowing but now I realize that I'm in Bucket's closet- it's his house- Ah! no worries!

Can't help myself.

The primary lever isn't on plane, the secondary lever is always on plane.

Bagger

Bagger- good point- just clarify it a little more- the primary lever isn't on the "swing plane" normally. It is has it's own plane with a flat left wrist i.e. the left arm and clubshaft are "in-line", and that is normally different than the swing plane. Only when the left shoulder, hand, and "clubhead" are on the "swingplane" is the primary lever "on the swing plane"- and that can happen- i.e. zero number three accumulator or your avatar picture looks like another situation where it might be on plane or close.

But your post wasn't much different than mine in that I didn't take the time to explain in detail the potential issues to my post- i.e. 1/2 back and 1/2 way down on a chip shot?, full shot? etc. etc. And I didn't take the time to explain it fully in regards to the entire swing and the relation of the #3 accumulator plane to the swing plane and does that change or have implications if I'm using a short shot or full shot, and flat plane or steep plane, small #3 or large #3, plane shift or no plane shift. Why? Haven't looked at it before and don't have time right now to check it out.

Hopefully your game is good! or getting better! because it is a great game to play!:)

Good one! That one made me chuckle.

Oh hey! Say "What's up" to Ichabod Crane for me next time you pass the fridge.

Everyone that said parallel is on the right track. But this doesn't explain where they are parallel and thus not fully explaining the relationship. One more night before I post the answer :)

They all come to the same "point" and that point is on 'the' plane, regardless of plane angle or loading action. I agree with Annikan that the rest can depend on multiple factors, but assume you must mean an 'ideal'.

Time for a picture...

I'm still not going to finish explaining it...

Im now hoping for someone other than me to give a specific answer...

However when someone defines a new plane - are they allowed to name it ?

I will call it Jen's plane after my girlfriend :) (thats the plane in red btw)




Im going to get the answer eventually from someone, even if I have to drag you all kicking and screaming....lol

So the answer you're looking for is PERPENDICULAR?:eyes:

Nice Graphic
 

Matthew,
Nice graphic but makes no sense to me- anotherwords I can't tell what it's representing. Is the green plane the #3 accumulator plane? And is part of it below the plane- the part that is furthest from the target and the part that is closest to the target above plane?

First of all the graphics are outstanding...I believe you took the vague and incomplete statement as a peronal attack...which it was not...as stated by my esteemed colleague Mike O...I am not the only one here that is still not sure what you are getting at...Yes...I see the lever asssembly or left arm flying wedge or #3 accumulator..which are all different ways of viewing the same thing in a different context...Yes I see the Plane...But why are you trying to demonstrate with the red thing perpendicular to the plane?..What part of Jens body is this plane?...Open eyes, open ears, open mind...Let's fill it!!!

Empty Bucket
 

Just for clarification- as it could be misconstrued - David (Annikan) is merely being modest and kind - he's obviously referring to Bucket's brain here and not his own.:salut:

Bagger I know- No PERSONAL ATTACKS- but I've personally received ove 1500 PM's in regards to Bucket not posting any good photo's over the last couple of weeks- in the meantime membership is dwindling- So unless "we" get something- "we'll" continue to attack the Bucket Head! Bucket off the sofa!- can we get some kind of graphic that comes close to what Matthew has produced?

Red Plane
 

Not sure I got the full meaning of the graphic, but what I see is the red plane representing the perpendicular(to the plane of the left arm assembly) plane of the left wrist hinge pin, so the motion would be horizontal/parallel to the inclined plae of the left arm assembly until the swivel starts, and then the red plane would have to rotate to the finish position. Of course I could have completely misunderstood the graphic entirely.....

G2M

One Degree of Separation
 

Mike,

It's OK, we all know Bucket is one fry short of a happy meal.
One accumulator shy of a four barrel pattern.
One degree off-center from a fully compressed ball.
He blames it on his offspring and I accept that.

Bucket's photo search engine is state of the art, but may be down due to the extreme load he puts on it.
I could go on...but, I'm beginning to worry about you!

Bagger

Perpendicular yes. I vastly prefer the word vertical though in relating to planes. How can you find this relationship - still got to be more specific...

I got your IMAGES!!!
 

Looks like to me he's saying that the #3 Accumulator and it's flat left wrist are VERTICAL to the selected Plane . . .

Let's talk about Eldrick now . . . 18 majors??? Who cares!!!

Yup the green plane is the acc no.3 plane.

The accumulator no.3 plane goes through the inclined plane at an angle - heres a side question for you ... why does it go through the inclined plane at an angle....

I didn't take anything as a personal attack - don't worry...lol

When no.3 is directly facing the plane they are parallel. But then the question was - where are they parallel. Ive drawn this third plane (Jen's Plane) and you can see that this parallel relationship by means of being vertical to the third plane (Jen's Plane). Now its about defining that third plane(Jen's plane).

Getting warm with one part "what I see is the red plane representing the perpendicular(to the plane of the left arm assembly) plane of the left wrist hinge pin"

The left arm does a play a role in finding this third plane..

Just keep thinking about geometrical alignments and relationships - this is what this thread is all about and trying to get you to think 'out of the book' and start taking Homer Kelleys alignments and understanding them....

Bucket Worship
 

Our Hero is back!! Ya - We're talking about you Bucket!:notworthy :headbang: \\:D/ :) :salut:

Because the left arm / shoulder isn't on plane.

Tell me we're not going to have a "engineer guided thread" - you know the kind that take 200 posts to get to the point! (West Coast LOL)-

Please clarify- did you say that the #3 accumulator plane was parallel to the swing plane but then it also goes through the swing plane at an angle? I know what I know- just trying to find out what you know- then maybe I'll change what I know or add to it.

Also, it would be nice if you walked through and described in words your graphic. I want to make sure that you're referencing the human golfer or the simple machine in 1-L- as they are different.

Thanks,

Mike O.

Thats right - accumulator 3 is one of the left arm planes !

Maybe I could send an audio clip to Baggar where I could actually talk you all through everything but I still want people to think first....

I know the difference - 1-L doesn't have an accumulator no.3 for starters.... the very thing that we are discussing...

We're getting warm to the right answer though.. Besides I have more questions for you all to follow this one...lol

Re - clarification - When accumulator no.3 has turned towards the plane so that they directly face each other they will be parallel in reference to Jen's plane. Accumulator no.3's plane goes through the inclined plane from above.

Jen's Plane
 

"When no.3 is directly facing the plane they are parallel. But then the question was - where are they parallel. Ive drawn this third plane (Jen's Plane) and you can see that this parallel relationship by means of being vertical to the third plane (Jen's Plane). Now its about defining that third plane(Jen's plane)."

If I understand correctly, Jen's plane would be the plane in which the #3acc operates, up or down to the inclined swing plane, controlled by the right forearm and left arm checkrein action. In a swing with no shift, #3 whould have no movement with respect to Jen's Plane.

G2M

What's behind door #2?
 

Mathew,

In your view does the #3 accumulator transition to the plane of the left wristcock motion #2?
Are you keeping them distinct and seperate, or blending?
Swinging, hitting, or does it matter?

Just curious.

Thanks,

Bagger

The left wristcock motion per the left flying wedge works in the plane of accumulator no.3. They are completely interchangable terms - plane of the left wristcock motion and accumulator no.3 plane. When the choice is presented, I use a term that I believe best fits when describing relationships.

This has nothing to do with hitting or swinging. Merely relationships of geometric alignments.

...........who ....car...es....#$%^&*()__

That is a major.............................