Accumulator #3
 

I was going through the archives and came across a ton of info.

I saw this below and do not understand what is meant by the angles and how they affect the shot. Why are we alternating grips for different shots?

If a greater #3 Angle is desired, the Club is positioned more under the Heel of the Hand. If less is desired, it is positioned more toward the Cup (but still under the Heel). If Zero #3 is desired, the Club is actually positioned in the Cup.

Yoda also says minimal #3 for maximum power in a snap release.

If its three, its for me.
 

As #3 is zeroed out, you will produce the Rhythm of Angled Hinging regardless of the Hinge action you are trying to employ. Very useful for short game shots.

what does zero'd out mean? I never understood that.

What's your angle?
 

Look at a player at address down the target line, there is usually an angle between the left arm and clubshaft. Although the left wrist is in the Level condition (4-B-1 & 2-J-1), the club is usually on an angle to the left hand (under the heel of the hand). If that angle does do exist (all in one line) it is zeroed out. You can also get the same condition by having the left wrist fully uncocked condition, no angle.

gotcha..thanks

So, less angle you have less flail giving you less power?

Don't mix up #2 (Wrist Motion) and #3 Accumulators (Hand Motion) per 4-D-0. The #3 should never be "out of line", instead it seeks to maintain its radial alignment with the Left Arm and Left Wrist vertical to its associated plane.

The confusing accumulator
 

Wanole:

Accumulator #3 is probably one of the more confusing Accumulators. That's how I find it anyway. Probably because it's interrelated with so many other things.

I prefer to view it as the angle formed between Clubshaft and Left Arm when the Wrist is Level as drewitgolf said earlier. There can only be an angle formed if you put the grip under your heel pad. If it goes in the thumb pad (e.g. in putting), then there won't be an angle when your Wrist is Level.
The confusing bit is that if your Left wrist is Cocked (i.e. Accumulator #2), that also counts as accumulator #3 even though you may initially have zero Clubshaft/Left Arm angle when your Left Wrist was Level.

In case you were wondering what "maintaining its radial alignment" means, it's basically about keeping a Flat Left Wrist, so the Clubshaft and Left Arm forms a straight line when you're looking perpendicular at it (but not if you're looking sideways because of the Acc #3 angle). So in that sense, it's never "out-of-line", but in-line.

All other things being equal, more Accumulator #3 equals greater Clubhead travel distance with the same amount of Roll with your Left Wrist. This equates to more Clubhead speed. But all other things are not equal because the more Accumulator #3 you have, the sooner you have to start Uncocking your Left Wrist (releasing Accumulator #2) which prevents the Trigger Delay needed in a Snap Release.

For those still incubating, you must make the link between the following:

• Rhythm
• Hinge Action
• Flat Left Wrist
• Accumulator #3
• Clubhead Travel
• Left Wrist Roll/Motion
• Lag Loading

The above list may confuse you even more (I hope not!), or it may help you. Due to time constraints at the moment, I cannot go into detail about their interrelatedness.
:neutral:

#3 accumulator
 

If you choke down on the grip with your left hand with the grip in the cup of your hand and keep the butt of the grip against the underneath of your left forearm the " ULNA "your left wrist will be level or if you take your normal grip(under the pad)and uncock your left wrist This will "zero out" acc#3.If you try hitting chip shots with both hands on the club using just acc#1 you will get the feel of acc#3(not being there!).This might sound bass ackwards but Yoda had me doing this early in my recent lesson ...quote..."we are going to hit shots with the least power first"I expected at least a chip...but I never understood acc#3!!!!!!:D .This also gave me my first aquaintence with......EXTENSOR ACTION!!!.This might not have been Yodas intention so early in the lesson BUT I SUSPECT IT WAS!!!

Strong post! Nice job setting this up. We can definitely go deeper here.

Hello Tongzilla...

I'd like to check out your interrelatedness on this....I am a bit rusty (no doubt!) and am looking forward to seeing it when you have the time!!!

BTW, good post.

Patrick

digging deeper
 

This accumulator angle still confuses me. There are a number of points:-

I understand that the 3 accumulator angle does not affect the left arm flying wedge, but doesn't it affect the right arm flying wedge?
Wouldn't you need to change the plane angle to accomodate the 3 accumulator angle and maintain the right arm wedge?

Also, I don't really understand the pros and cons of incorporating this angle into any stroke - hitting or swinging. The Endless Belt Effect seems to suggest that the smaller the pulley(zero angle), the more clubhead speed generated. I think 6-B-3-A hints at the answer for hitting, but it is unclear to me. It would seem that, if swinging, there is no reason to incorporate this angle at all.


Could anyone help shed some light on any of these areas? This has me stumped.:confused:

Cheers

Bobby J

By definition, the wedges are set with the wrists in a 'level' condition. If you have a large accumulator #3 (low hands), you will not have a proper right forearm wedge at address.

Still confused
 

I understand that the right arm flying wedge is set with a level right wrist. I thought the only condition of the left arm flying wedge was that it is ALWAYS positioned against the plane of the left wristcock motion (i.e a flat left wrist).
I can maintain the right arm wedge AND have a large #3 accumulator angle by holding the shaft in the heel of my left hand. I know that this creates a longer distance for the clubhead to travel during release, but I don't know of any reasons why this could be a good (or bad) thing.

If any #3 accumulator angle makes the "mandatory" right arm flying wedge "improper", then, as before, why would one be incorporated into any stroke? Also, per 6-B-3-A, Homer states ...there must always be a definite Accumulator #3 "Overtaking" Action.

Help!

Bobby J

The #3 Accumulator Overtaking Action: The Exception To The Rule
 

There must always be a definite Accumulator #3 'Overtaking' Action unless...

Accumulator #3 has been Zeroed out.

In which case, the Left Arm and Clubshaft are already In Line.

Hence, there can be no 'seeking to maintain the In Line condition' characteristic of the #3 Accumulator action.

In too deep
 

I understand that this is the case when #3 accumulator is zeroed out - no travel, only clubface action.
I was just trying to emphasise the point that if a #3 accumulator angle makes the mandatory right arm wedge flying wedge improper, why would Homer have us use any accumulator #3 angle in the first place?

I thought the 'in line' requirement was just that of the left arm flying wedge (vertical plane), so, with or without #3 accumulator, we are always in line as long as we have a flat left wrist. If 'inline' meant zero #3 accumulator then the left arm would be on plane.

Also, I thought the 'overtaking' action that Homer described was the feel of the clubhead overtaking the hands due to release rotation whenever a #3 accumulator angle is employed. It is not actually overtaking, it just has a longer distance to travel when the #3 angle is large (large pulley). Please correct me if I am wrong

So, does anybody know why anyone would incorporate a #3 accumulator angle when swinging if a snap release and a small pulley provides maximum power? Shouldn't this angle be avoided?

And, when hitting, is this angle beneficial in some way? Should it be incorporated into all hitting procedures?

Pea soup.

Bobby J

The Flying Wedges And The #3 Accumulator Angle
 

You are correct, bobbj. And minimizing the #3 Angle serves only to enable the player to Delay longer the Release (and thus increase Clubhead Speed for any given Handspeed per 2-M-2-4). It alters nothing geometric.

Clearing #3 Accumulator Fog
 

It does not.

More #3 Accumulator Fog Burn Off
 

The Swinger greatly increases the Lag and produces a sharper, smoother Release Motion by bringing the #3 Accumulator into Impact with a Turned Left Wrist (not Vertical). This is the Left Hand Karate Chop -- palm down to the Plane -- through the Line of Sight to the Ball before the Release Trigger. The simultaneous Right Hand Karate Chop brings the Turned Right Hand (with its palm up to the Plane) through the Line of Sight to the Ball before Triggering.

Though the Hitter does not normally employ the Snap Roll into Impact (Release Swivel), he nevertheless benefits from the Overtaking Action of the #3 Accumulator. Accordingly, as you suggest, he should incorporate it into those Strokes requiring more than minimal Power.

Soup Lover
 

So zero #3 accumulator, although producing maximum clubhead speed, can produce erratic release rhythm, decrease clubhead lag pressure and therefore produce less consistant results?

Too much #3 accumulator will create an early release, and although having increased lag and rhythm control, will reduce clubhead speed?

If the above is correct, would the best compromise be small #3 accumulator angle when hitting and swinging?
When hitting, would a larger #3 accumulator be beneficial because of the angled hinging nature of the stroke? i.e smaller amount of clubhead travel at release can be increased by a larger angle? :confused:

I can see the car in front....

Bobby J

Out Of The #3 Accumulator Fog
 

1. Zero #3 Accumulator produces minimum Clubhead Speed; can and should be executed with perfect Rhythm; with any degree of Lag Pressure from light to heavy; and properly executed will produce consistent results. In other words, exactly the opposite of everything you said. :( But we're gettin' there! :)

2. An increased #3 Accumulator (from the Level condition of the Left Wrist) will require an earlier Release, but only slightly earlier. This can be offset with a higher Handspeed. All degrees of Accumulator #3 (from Zero to Maximum) should be executed with perfect Rhythm, i.e., the Hands and Club should move at the identical Angular Speed (RPM). This will happen when you keep your Left Wrist Flat through Impact.

3. Hitters and Swingers can use the same amount of #3 Accumulator Angle. Just grip the Club slightly under the heel pad of the Left Hand (not way down deep in the fingers) and you've got it.

The wheels on the bus go round and round
 

Is it me or does this look like a contradiction?


Yoda, your post #18 made sense to me - post #20 point 1 has overloaded my incubator. Too many eggs!

I think that the car in front is an oncoming bus!

Bobby J

Read and study the second point in post #20.

round and round, round and round
 

I know there isn't a contradiction here but these statements seem slightly at odds with each other to me.

The first quote I think I understand - the longer the release travel, the greater the clubhead lag time during release, the smoother the release motion.
So, it would make sense that the less release travel (zero/min #3), the less clubhead lag time during release, the quicker the release motion.

Wouldn't the quicker release (small pulley, min #3), due to its fleeting nature, be more erratic, harder to time and therefore produce less consistant results in the long term than the longer release?


Bobby J

Come in #20
 

I have no problem with this point in itself. But with this new increased handspeed and the short quick release of minimum #3 accumulator, all other things being equal, the ball will go further. 6-N-0.

Lynn,
I think Bobby brings up a valid point...

Can you explain further how minimizing accumulator #3 allows (or serves) the player to delay release?

I suspect you mean minimal accumlator #3 allows the player to reelase later without having to allow for accumulator #3....

However, I dont get it. More later....dont want to [ass-ume] too much.

Thanks!

2. An increased #3 Accumulator (from the Level condition of the Left Wrist) will require an earlier Release, but only slightly earlier. This can be offset with a higher Handspeed. All degrees of Accumulator #3 (from Zero to Maximum) should be executed with perfect Rhythm, i.e., the Hands and Club should move at the identical Angular Speed (RPM). This will happen when you keep your Left Wrist Flat through Impact.
]
Could you explain this in greater detail...

How does Handspeed offset this earlier release of #3 Acc?

Accomodating The #3 Accumulator Roll
 

The larger the #3 Angle, the earlier its Roll must begin in Release. Since, for a given Hinge Action, all degrees of Accumulator #3 Angle (except Zero) result in Clubhead travel through an arc of identical distance, the earlier Release requires a higher Handspeed to maintain an identical travel time.

Gotcha!

When I think of release, I think of the lengthening of the third side of the triangle. When I think of accumulator #3, I was seeing that as only one component(is that the correct terminology - :)] of the release itself (if there is more then one accumulator)...

But I was generally in the vicinity I think - and thank you (and Annikan) for the clarification!

Thank you sir, may I have another? Just kidding!

Thoughts on handspeed and acc #3
 

For reference, I have been incubating from the following sections on acc #3: 4-D-0; 2-P; 2-G; 7-18; 6-M-1

Here is a thought that I cannot find stated explicitly in the book, but I think it is valid and relevant to this discussion:
Increasing Accumulator #3 enables greater handspeed because it allows a smaller radius (less effective mass) for the clubhead at the top (or end). Accumulator #2 (left wrist cock) has a maximum limit (about 60-65 deg for me from level to fully cocked). If I add 40 deg of acc #3, that means that the angle between the left forearm and clubshaft at the top is 100-105 deg., which means at start down, the clubhead is closer to the center of rotation than the hands, or greatly reduced effective mass, which translates proportionately into increased acceleration from the same amount of torque. Increasing acc #3 should have a greater affect with longer clubs. It seems to me that acc #3 would probably have a greater affect for swingers than hitters, because swingers go to end and have a quick start down, giving the hands more time to accelerate with the lower effective mass.

Also, 6-B-3-0 states that "Accumulator #3 Hand Motion (4-D-0) is "Clubface Control," "Rhythm Control" and "Roll Power Control" of the Right Elbow". This seems to infer that increasing acc #3 increases control of the roll of the left wrist. The swingle (2-K) seeks its inline condition, so CF helps to pull acc #3 inline at low point, if rhythm is correct and CF is not manipulated.

accumulator #3
 

Elliskit,
I think the following from your post above is an excellent point!

Quote: "Here is a thought that I cannot find stated explicitly in the book, but I think it is valid and relevant to this discussion: Increasing Accumulator #3 enables greater handspeed because it allows a smaller radius (less effective mass) for the clubhead"...UnQuote

Of course, "smaller radius" could have a lot of different perspectives- so if not obvious to someone- we're talking about Conversation of Angular Momentum- and having the center of gravity of the lever assemblies closer to the center of rotation- i.e. the pivot, just like the speed skater- therefore allowing a higher hand speed or put another way a faster rotation.

Although, I'm not relating it to any of the previous posts- as you stated- it's a different perspective than Homer was referring to- but your point is a separate and valid perspective, and does have it's own relevance to the topic.

Original thinking should be rewarded- nice work!:)

Elliskit, I too think you've made a good point.

But, I think the reason Homer didn't state this explicitly was because he considered the lengthening/shortening of the Lever Assembly more a function of Wristcock (Accumulator #2) which has a Perpendicular Motion. And the effect this has on handspeed as you have stated is explained in detail in 2-P.

Good point nonetheless :)

Yes, it should ;)

I think I am beginning to understand the effect of the #3 accumulator angle thanks to Elliskit's post.

There is rotation of the primary lever assembly about the left shoulder and, when a #3 accumulator angle is employed, rotation of the secondary lever assembly about PP#3.

If the #3 angle is zero there is no clubhead rotation about PP#3 - only clubface rotation.

If the angle is large at release, the effective mass of the clubhead is increased and angular velocity is decreased. This extra effective mass will tend to slow down the hands and a greater lag pressure will be felt on PP#3.

If the angle is small at release, the angular velocity is increased and the effective clubhead mass and swing radius is decreased. This will lessen the tendency of the hands to decelerate.

Does this makes sense?

Cheers,

Bobby J

Think of it as PP#3 being 'in orbit' around PP#1 on 'the' plane