Seriously guys .. Do you know why TGM is written?
 

I am very new to TGM. I have no background in teaching. I keep reading about the Right shoulder left shoulder, Pivot , arguements etc. And therefore I got a question and a thought. I might be wrong and I am long. But bear with me.

A little background.

But when my wife introduced me to Jesus Christ , I explored, I was a very late adopter. And we went to bible study together. I was answering the right questions about bible study, My wife couldn't answer anything was quiet the whole time. In the end I asked. Do you know who wrote the Old testament and new testaments and why it was written, When it was written? She could not give a "correct" answer. There are in fact many people like that. Joining a religion because people say its good, but don't understand why. Sorry dont let my wife hear or she won't cook for a month.

NOW..

How many people here really could understand why The Golf Machine was Written( Comdpa just told me nobody knew why exactly and Homer is naturally inquisitive)? What objectives it have? I mean who even bother to read the Preface and the Introduction of any book? My goodness I know many people just want to get to the Juice and do not understand Why they want it. Or simply because someone say its good? :naughty: :naughty:

Read Chapter 1-0, 1-B, 1-G

Simply if I comprehend the objective of writing The Golf Machine, ( i failed literature so...), One of The Golf Machine primary objective to explain how a golf stroke is Effective Using the principles of Geometry and Engineering . But Not necessary easy.

And The Short Cuts ( Band Aid) can turn out be the longest Route.

Therefore its a book on What is the way to strike a ball effectively therefore is this book about efficiency?

Does effective mean, hitting it further , straighter with less effort? or just that you can hit a ball straight(read the intro again)?

I can see some so called well known coach with a GSED preaching . " You cant perform it,its fine, I teach you the easy way, will will get you to do it SoMeHow !" Ok.. But to date, I have not been enlightened from all the posts, IS MORE EASIER= More EFFectiveor Band Aid is the only thing you need so you can hit straight balls? Is Homer wrong about golf being effective yet difficult?

Or Should you be effective to become Easy ( thats what TGM trying to teach isnt it? and thats what most principle life is)


Looking at the show Star Wars. Its almost Deja Vu. As long you hate, u get more power, come to the dark side, its the EASY way out. in return, there is an Ultimate sacrifice. Power eventually isn't Everything when you die, you only got a coffin to your name. While I think as a human being. Living Happy and Satisfied is a hard thing but provides the most satisfaction. Thats my goal. Well you can have your own set of goals. But thats my goal. Who don't want to be happy? But how?

So is being easier to learn a Goal? or to become Effective a Goal? People who study golf machine, and dont know why the golf machine is written is like my wife. Nono.. I dont mean i will love u like my wife or ask u to like my wife. I mean similar attitude.

So Ask yourself again What and why do you study TGM? Why is it more effective? If TGM is to be challenged, shouldn't one explain why isn't it more effective? Why tell people why if they cannot execute it there is an easy way out? Is there an Ulterior Motive? ( wrong spelling? )... pfft

Surely you are not going to tell someone who could not stop smoking to have nicotine patches ? Pretty hilarious. But i had tried it, it brought me to another long road of resentment. Unsatisfied. I went the hard and effective way. Cold turkey.

I know people are always attracted to an easy way out in life. Drugs, Smoking, Gambling, The promise of Easy Golf ( how many hype are there in the last 50 years?). To live is easy, to live really happily is not.

I hate the word easy now. Do you?

People stop smokin' cold turkey . . . Man I smoked a bean pod a couple of times. And then I tried to roll up some turkey off of a turkey samich . . . after I finally got it lit . . . it was freakin' HORRIBLE!!!

What kind of moron would START smokin' cold turkey in the first place is what I want to know!!!

I beg a pardon? =.=a ..

Edit ;; I get it ahahahhahahaahhahaha Cold turkey

In my opinion, The Golfing Machine is a great resource for those who want to teach the golf swing and, therefore, need a technical understanding of all of the possibilities so they can find a pattern that best fits their student.

As an instruction "how to" book for the average player, it is poor.

I feel , that is an extremely good point. Like what Comdpa told me. I do not have to Understand TGM and get confused by the book. Thats the job of the coach. You only need to understand how to swing it effectively. But , to me this book is so amazing. Homer Kelly is a Genious. Well its a cheaper and more effective way to stimulate my brain cells than going Karaoke or play Mahjong.

Why I written the above is simply trying to stimulate people ask themselves what is the Author's Objective of TGM . Instead of following because someone say its good or leaving because someone say its bad. I believe by asking yourselves this question, people might understand the existance of TGM, and have a better chance of deciding for themselves their own preference.

I may have lead or mislead people. But the end of the day. Analyse, think and be the captain of your ship ! Seize the day!

problem solver
 

Homer started out with problem to solve after playing, I believe, his first round of golf. The problem was compression- how to sustain the Line of Compression on the ball which I guess was an observation he had for to good ball striking.

Homer was a problem solver. One answer lead to other questions. After 30+ years of solving problems- the yellow book was published.

try warming it up a little in the micro before smoking...much better flavor:sleepy:

Yeah but then it would WARM turkey and not COLD turkey . . . there's just no way to start smokin' cold turkey. I'm convinced.

Bah! Instead of talking about the important points you all are making fun of my English!..

I have bad friends.

Oh stop it! You made a good post. We're just jokin'.

I think Mr. K ambitiously tried to catalog all strokes as well as the principals that govern a truly effective stroke.

I think you and RWH have raised an interesting point . . .

Is TGM the best way to LEARN golf? Most people have never heard of TGM. Most of the elite players in the world probably don't have a clue about TGM or even what they actually do.

So the question is what is the best WAY TO LEARN GOLF? I think we have the BEST information without question with what Mr. K gave us . . . but the question is how to APPLY it . . .

Now we're getting somewhere.

You were a big time "book" guy for a while right?

What happened in your experience to change from "nose in book" to "head in game?"

I absolutely LOVE the Machine and I think it has helped me tremendously . . . however I think there is a REASON that some people get it without the book . . . I think that REASON (or whatever it is . . . instincts) is innate in all of us. Some people just LEARN golf more effectively or quicker or something.

There are WAY WAY more people that don't have clue about this stuff that can flat play golf than those that know the book and can actually DO IT.

There are many that succeed in the game INSPITE OF INFERIOR INSTRUCTION than what we have with TGM.

The riddle is WHY IS THAT? What is going on in those peoples' LEARNING process? How do we better access our innate ability to LEARN precise movements required to effectively control the distance and direction of a golf ball?

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!
 

My take on it as well. I look at it this way. A lot of us have a basic idae how a car engine works, but would you really attempt serious engine work without a workshop manual that gives you all the specs, tolerances,unique language,terms and procedures? Unless you are a very experienced mechanic, probably not, and even then, you likely have a shop manual for reference. Would a shop manual be useful to a novice who barely knows how to check the oil? Probably not. Homer Kelly authored a workshop manual for the golf swing. Lynn and Ted are very experienced in the contents, and probably only use it periodically like the very esperience auto mechanic. As a tool for the novice golfer, it holds about the same value as the shop manual does for the neophyte auto mechanic.

My $.02

G2M

The only problem with not having somebody competitent is INCOMPLETE instruction through faulty translation . . . In efforts to keep things simple stuff gets omitted that is very critical to the whole . . .

BUT that being said . . . I guarantee that dude that played the senior tour that lived on a farm and played with clubs that got burnt up in a fire got it via INSTINCT.

There certainly are different ways to LEARN it . . . however . . . there has to be an OPTIMUM/more efficient way . . .

Mr. K of course almost MANDATED the use of an AI. And I'm sure there are some of them that "ain't got it."

You said it best, Bucket -- there are way many more people who don't know the book that can flat out play than do know the book. So what does that tell us? In my opinion, it tells us that there is nothing unique in that book that is necessary for someone to learn how to play good golf. For me, I decided the book was way too much work and very unnessesary for me enjoy the game.

Bucket, I don't know the answer to your question, other than to say I'm convinced that both sides are at fault -- most students don't know how to "learn" and most teachers don't know how to teach.

Yeaaaaaaaaah BUT . . .

There are EVEN MORE PEOPLE who DON'T know the book THAT CAN'T PLAY A LICK than those that don't know but CAN.

So what about them people? The book ain't necessary for those with good instincts . . . but I think those that don't "get it" with or without the book are missing something.

I say it's a mix of PROPER TRANSLATION of the concepts in the book and a study of how people LEARN in general. I think that would be the missing link for the CAN'T DO's.

You gave up on self-study of the book but got help from someone who could effectively TRANSLATE what's in there right?

So wouldn't it be translation and the learning how to learn part?

We have exchanged PM's and you are GOOD PEOPLE man. I don't want people to think you "sold out" or something. I just like to see people get better REGARDLESS of how the get'r done ... books, teachers, gadgets, selling the soul to the devil or whatever!

Yes, thankfully, I learned a lot of good stuff from others who know the book. But I didn't (and couldn't) get it on my own out of the book. For those that can, God bless 'em. This was my original point in post #4 -- the book is gold in the hands of golf instructors who need to know how all those 24 components fit together in the swing. But your average golfer -- which is about 98% of all golfers -- doesn't need to know all of the stuff in the book. They just need to know what works best for them.

So, that's how I'm approaching it now -- go to the guru if I want some help, but I'm just not reading the book anymore. Leaves me more time to watch my Ron White vids!

The Farmer
 

12 Piece - the player of whom you speak is Robert Landers.

Bruce

12PB...good post.....(that's deep)...

...

There's no doubt that good information helps....that's not even arguable.

Guided struggle.

...

I mean....the book may screw you up for a while if you take on the full dose by yourself....but you sort it out....and come out better and smarter in the end. (if you're persistent)

About Winning and TGM. Question yourself!
 

Can you Play to a scratch flipping? Can you Play on tour Flipping?Can you win PGA Flipping? Yes Yes Yes.


Is Winning Golf all about Great golf stroke and great ball striking? No

Which have a better chance of winning anything. A tough Mental Attitude or a Fantastic Golf Stroke ? Sergio. Michelle. The other End of the spectrum My Hero. Jim Furyk

Do you need Confidence , Great Strategist, Temperament, Attitude to Win? Yes.

If You have great mental attitude. You just find ways to be Perfect and ways to go into the Hole with the lowest Stroke.. Isn't that Golf, Life?

Do Being Effective gives you a better chance and reduce fustration? Talking about that,I personally like to see Nick Faldo come learn TGM. Will be so cool.

It is easy and possible to hit a golf ball with a predictable Pattern. It is NOT easy to hit it effectively. Is that why The Author's Objective of TGM?

Is there any other books that can scientifically explain why this man hits a mile , hits it crisper than any other ?

Is there any other golf book that had endured 7 editions and still improving?
Is being Effective makes the Game FUN and less fustrating, and makes less demanding on your physical self to make a golf stroke effective till you cannot walk?

Is TGM a short cut ( a difficult short cut) to learning effective golf stroke, Or A short cut can create an effective golf stroke?

Is that why GSED is there for?

I WANT TO CONQUER THE WORLD!!!!!!

(pinky and the brain, pinky and the brain....)

sorry man i realised i am steering it off the points i decided to edit :p

Ahhhh, the difference between knowing and doing.

Ideally you must develop a near daily program that enables to train to the best of your ability. One thing I don't think people do in golf enough is equate the game to a sport. Its a sport that includes fitness and flexability, rigourous training routines tailored around the specific individual.

It doesn't matter what you know - its how you apply it!

Good golfers generally just experiment and pick up things they know help usually under the guidance of the teacher but they are out there actually practicing and eventually they will get a very good level of play. No one ever got better just by reading a book - even if it is as great as The Golfing machine®.

These are excellent good points.

So, is it safe to think that, Any good golfer MUST have the ability to apply Good Common sense and the positive attitude what works and what don't work for them to get in the Hole . Regardless the route and journey to learn to play golf?

Heres a quote from Jack Nicklaus - Playing Lessons
Also people can't do the same things. If you are fat and out of shape, you might not be able to maintain a stationary head for example, however it is far preferable to physically improve rather than swaying off to the right and saying thats 'your style'. Whatever improves your ability to be consistant. Most people are just too physically out of shape to have a golf stroke that is going to be consistant on the level of the PGA tour guys.

Drunk in PUB-LICK . . . Have you SEEN that dude's hair lately? YIKES!!! It just about ruint it for me!!!

Bucket,

When I was reading your posts I was thinking about the idea that Brian had brought up before, that good players learn lag by hitting hooks. Some people, for whatever reason, have the proper instincts when it comes to self-correcting on the range. One guy starts to hook it, he creates a little more lag, meanwhile I'm hitting some hooks and start steering it. The thing is, with good information and consistent practice and good preparation as Mathew alluded to, you can increase your odds of becoming a player.

Some people don't have all the wrong instincts with a golf club contrate to what Hogan stated in Five Fundamentals. Some swing it fairly close to correctly naturally and are blessed with the talent or maybe even luck to make some good corrections to improve ball flight.

Matt

Simple and Easy
 

Making a golf swing is simple and easy.

Making a golf swing precisely is simple, but not easy.

Making a golf swing to hit a ball is not simple, nor easy.

Making a golf swing to hit a ball precisely, you know what it is!

Swing, don't hit!

The optimum, most efficient way for one student to learn is a waste of time for another. As an example, instructor Chuck Cook has said that he had to invent drills that would keep Payne Stewart engaged because Payne was ADD. Making 100 putts in a row from 3 feet probably wouldn't be a good drill for Payne. Apparently, Tiger loves it. Neither way is right or wrong -- depends on the student.

I would say that the best instructors are those that not only can figure out what swing pattern and techniques best fit an individual student, but also have the ability to teach it in a way that is meaningful for the student.

That's one thing I have never done well....ORGANIZED practice...

I get into random experimentation....

I mean, I practice as much as anyone prolly.....my backyard's about 70 yards long......(with power lines and then bush behind it....I pick a tree, hit balls at it then try to find em)...

Everytime I walk into my garage I end up pickig up my wedge...then end up going into the backyard....usually for about an hour sometimes more.

Not very organized tho....more manic really.....but it's pretty narrowed down now and I have learned a lot. (and dabbled in everything)

All Mine
 

I took up the book for one reason.

I want to own MY swing.

I took up golf at a late age, approached it intelligently because I wanted to get as good as I could as quickly as I could.

I was surprised to find how many "opinions" there were about the golf swing from instructors that wanted me to swing like them, and instruction articles that tried to explain how the pros did it. Most of the opinions conflicted with one another. Learning how to swing the club was as frustrating as playing to a high handicap.

The Golfing Machine enabled a clear understanding of the why and how. Plus it gives plenty of options to custom fit. There isn't a single way for me to swing, there is only MY way to swing and it only fits me, like a well tailored suit.

Homer wrote the book with Instructors in mind, but he didn't exclude guys like me that want ownership of their swing.

Bagger,

In the spirit of Bucket's question about how best to learn the information contained in The Golfing Machine, how much of your swing did you learn exclusively from your study of the book before you started getting lessons and explanations from Ben and Lynn.

I'll give my answer. None. I tried many different times to "get into" the book, but my eyes just glazed over. I don't think it's because I'm stupid. Everything I know about how to actually DO the things in the book came from personal lessons with Chuck Evans, Lynn Blake, Ted Fort (just a few minutes with Ted)and Brian Manzella (I also have the Chuck Evans, Greg McHatton, Chuck Cook and Brian Manzella DVD's).

Just the Book
 

RWH,

The way the book is written, I don't think it can be fully understood without help. These forums are invaluable for armchair work and I'm privileged to do what I do here. I bought the book two years after picking up my first set of clubs. I have always had the supplemental resource of a TGM forum to fall back on. I learned about The Golfing Machine from the very first forum that Chuck Evans started (ezboard) and later the TGM home office forum (both now closed). That was 6 years ago.

For three years, the TGM forum and Chucks forum were all I had to help decipher the book. Without them I wouldn't have made much progress. My scoring dropped from the high-90's to mid-80's during that period and golf became much more enjoyable. But I was stuck and couldn't seem to ever break 80. Ben Doyle was the first AI I spent time with. I would have continued with Ben, but Lynn and I were just beginning to develop a friendship at that time, so I visited him 9 months after seeing Ben.

I went to Lynn with a decent swing, and he corrected many alignment errors I simply couldn't see. It wasn't an overhaul but I had some very common faults. Inside takeaway, misaligned flying wedges at the top, and steering were the biggies. We also worked on short game. I still have it all on video. I've had hands-on lessons with Ben once, twice with Lynn, and once with Steve Ferguson. The second time I saw Lynn was when I met you and we had a memorable dinner at the Atlanta CC.

I'm shooting in the 70's now. Anything over 79 is a bad day. I play a couple times a month and practice when I can. If I could get out more I know I could go low. I've got to get my priorities straight!!! So for a middle aged guy that took up the game late in life and has been golfing 8 years, I'm very happy with my decision to base everything swing related on TGM.

Book reading in combination with the forums helped shave a ton of strokes off my game, and hands-on instruction is making me a player. If the book were my only resource from the beginning, it would probably be gathering dust and so would my swing.

Very interesting Bagger. Can't believe you only get to play twice a month. I have to agree The Golfing Machine is the best there is. I have dropped handicap from 8 to 5 since working on the principles this year with the help of Ian Clark and Rob Noel.

Chuck Cook
 

rwh,

Can you tell me if the Chuck Cook videos utilize TGM principles and whether or not they were helpful? Also, can you tell me the titles? Thanks a lot.

teach

Thanks for sharing. I think This is the True Essence of learning TGM. You need to visit someone who knows and believe TGM to understand TGM. Its Contagious.

Reading and Quoting from the book is easy. But I never understood until Comdpa Demonstrate through visual, feel.

And there is no way that you know exactly your own fault , nomatter how obvious without a coach to tell you, Force you to do something with total faith

Operating System -- Run Silent...Run Deep
 

I'm not answering for rwh, but I can tell you this:

At last year's PGA Merchandise Show, Joe Daniels, president of The Golfing Machine, LLC, hosted a gathering of TGM Authorized Instructors and 'interested others.' Chuck Cook was a featured speaker, and from the podium, he held aloft the 'Yellow Book' and said (paraphrased):

"This book has made me three million dollars."

That statement leads me to believe that Chuck's videos -- I have seen none -- contain more than a little TGM.

But I also would not be surprised if, as usual...

The genius and gift of Homer Kelley remains "under wraps."

TGM/Cook
 

////////////////////////////////////////////

Yes, Mr. Cook knows some TGM. I've heard him speak also, and it is quite evident that TGM knowledge is there.

Prinicples, yes; use of terminolgy or mention of the book, no. But, if you know the book, you'll recognize a lot of things -- bent left wrist, flat right wrist at address, right forearm pickup, flat back shoulder turn, right shoulder works down plane to the ball with a swinging procedure; flat left wrist, bent right wrist at impact; forward leaning shaft at impact -- just to name a few. You will also recognize the use of the Chapter 12 progression of Basic, Acquired and Total motion.

Good, solid, helpful information, but nothing that anyone on this or the other TGM instructor forums don't know about. I really liked the 2 DVD short game set the best, especially some really cool drills. Titles: "Building The Perfect Swing" (1 DVD). "Building The Perfect Short Game" (2 DVD's)

I got his book and he identifies The Golfing Machine as part of his education in the intro . . .