Driver Questions?
 

I am just flatt out drilling my irons using the hitting method. However, with my 3 wood and my driver I am slicing the crap out of the ball. I must be doing something stupid, so are there any suggestions?

After thinking about the problem I think it maybe that I am not getting the trail elbow back to my side first and I am trying to hit from the top causing a major out side inside swing path.

Any other suggestions are welcomed.

With the Hit stroke you need to gather yourself in a slow, heavy and deliberate motion that puts your hands in place to drive pp3 through the ball. I think you might still be trying to crank it up like a swinger who needs to generate a fast throw out release. You need to drive straight down and thru the ball. Check with Ted Fort on tee height and ball location. He is the man to see. You may also need to close the face a tiny bit at address.

Thanks Mike. I probably am trying to kill it to much. I hae been having driver issues since last spring. I was using a Cleveland Launcher 460with a nice high fade, now I am using a Cobra 400 offset that is lower and shorter. I want my 290-300yd drives back!

I have the same problem with the driver. I can hit upto 3 wood, and now is trying to hit with the driver. Suppose one swing for all clubs but with the driver, it just feel different. Is it due to the t up?

1. On the backswing, I take it up with the rfa tracing the plane line.
2. Coming down, I always hit very low and not far.
3. If taking too inside, will hit very low.
4. If my left turn too fast, a pull hook.

Do you use a square/square setup? How do you govern the backswing i.e. how to make sure not too inside and be consistent?

Also find out why you are not releasing No.2 and No.3 accumulator, which is the cause of slice. The club need to change end with the left arm, even with angled hinging .or hitting. Imagine that the club travels on a inclined plane the arm does not stay ahead of the club at all times.

If OTT, one of the sure tell sign is skying the ball very easily. The shoulders start turning too early before axis tilt sets the On plane move are one of the biggest cause of OTT.

Per Kelley, the longer the club the more errors are magnified. Certainly and most logically, it is harder to master clubhead control with a longer club. Just know that there are no quick fixes and settle in for the journey. Absolutely master basic motion with a short club, and along with that, your driver will immediately START to get better (note only START to). Move through the set. I think it would be a stretch to have a case where someone has perfect motion with a sand wedge and then out of no where, they have trouble hitting the driver.

Is there difference in the setup? The thing that bother me is I can hit quite well with the 3 wood but with the driver just terrible - and the driver is 1 inch longer and tee higher.

What is the difference in loft between the two clubs?

The driver is R7 10.5 degree; the 3 wood is 13 degree.

Look, this hitting "stuff" is not efficient, period, end of story. Swingers dont have an issue with longer clubs (irons or woods), as is CLEARLY the case with those trying a hitting procedure.

Look at the number of posts regarding the SAME TOPIC! No other topic dominates the hitting or swinging category like "I can't hit my long irons, woods, or drivers".

Why is that? Its not a good way to play.

PGA, LPGA, Champions, Nationwide, European, Asian, Australian, tours, and all we can find is Stadler, Quiqely, Doyle, Appleby and Ted

If 99% of the best players on earth don't (cant) use this procedure, why should anyone even go down this path? Now thats insanity.

I believe hitting is a specialty shot, as is a flop or lob shot. Its good for shots inside 160 yards, cuts right through any wind and is accurate within this range, but, its not the most versatile way of "building your game around".

You must swing! It allows far more shot options and overall works better.

Sorry boss . . . no offense but you are DEAD wrong on this'un. You first have to understand it and then you have to execute the alignments. It REALLY isn't that big of a deal once you understand and can execute the procedure.

Guarantee most people that ask the question can't Hit my long irons . . . can't Swing them either . . . that's why everybodies' pimpin' hybrids. In general people get a long iron in their hand and OVERACCELERATE (the menace that stalks all lag and drag). Plus I think people tend to put their focus on the clubhead rather than the hands as the clubs get progressively longer. I actually think it is EASIER to Hit long irons.

And for the record . . . I'm a Swinger.

Well, I agree with the general notion that hitting/swinging long irons is an issue for the masses.

However, the hitting procedure itself, still sucks in general. There are FAR more posts on how to hit longer clubs in the Hitting section, than Swinging section. Its because of inefficientcy of the procedure.

Additionally, no one seems to want to address the dirth of hitters on the major tours....I summize its because it does not work. If it did, more would have "dug it out of the dirt" by now! Literally thousands of professionals and aspiring professionals have experimented with all kinds of ways of getting the ball to the hole, yet, hitting is not a procedure that many do, or employ in there arsenal of shots, why?

(and don't tell me because they have not discovered Homer, thats old and worn out)

Maybe they have discovered Homer, but do they really understand hitting and its application?

How exactly is it surprising that people can hit with short irons but not long irons and woods? Has there ever been a "swinger" that, when first starting out, hit long irons and woods just as well as short irons?

Maybe all the people, that have the woods/irons problem, are "just starting out" (in understanding and application). Is that so hard to believe, given one can basically only find solid information on hitting from TGM and this site???? And given the fact that those who we know to have a solid understanding of hitting and who have put in the correct practice (example Ted Fort) do just as well as swingers (in distance and accuracy)???? AND given the fact that any and all "decent" mainstream golf instruction (instruction that, like it or not, is in the memory of even TGMers, and creates habits and biases) is based on swinging????

These days, in my opinion, most people on tour do not dig it out of the dirt.
But, back when they did, I think any normal person would agree that there were more variations, some of which clearly tended toward hitting (Palmer, Traveno). So if they don't dig it out of the dirt, what kind of instruction are they getting? As detailed above, certainly not instruction with any knowledge of the hitting option.

There's alot of blame to go around as to why the swinging procedure might SEEM more effiecient, but the hitting procedure itself is not part of this blame.

The Tomasello Genius
 

The genius of Tomasello's TGM approach is he used both.....on the range Tommy said to me....if you want to get this game in your hip pocket....learn to hit and swing. That's why Tommy had three schools.....a swinging school, a hitting school and an advanced school which taught the golfer to utilize both hitting and swinging on the course. NOW, can you see why Tommy used the Magic of the Right Forearm for both Hitting and Swinging. The word efficiency should come to mind....someday, some members might catch on. Nothin like a low 3 barrel hitting procedure with the driver or 3 wood....a la Tomasello from the Australia video series. Just another shot in your bag.


DG

Ok . . . define what Hitting is in your opinion . . .

Could not be that your understanding or hitting alignments suck . . . or you suck at hitting . . . and not that hitting sucks?

There are Major Winners who are Hitters AP. . . Stads . . . Lee Buck . . . Larry Nelson. That ain't a bad list.

Just because pros don't do it doesn't make it invalid. Hell pros don't swing like Moe Norman but pretty much to a man they said he hit it better than any of them.

Try a Closed-Closed Plane Line and an Open-Open Mind.


Oh yeah . . . and it's because they haven't discovered Homer :happy3: .

I fully support our Bucket,

With any shots, there must be Rhythm. Without it , there is no consistencies, over acceleration, no connections and dependencies.

There are tons of hitters as there are a lot of swingers Models, and not a simple matter of splitting the golfdom into a IDEAL swinging or Hitting Models. Neither the 'best' model can play best.

For example, its not necessary to start hitting from a IMPACT fix setup, neither this component is meant for Hitting only.

Hinge action, angle of attack, Plane angle, how closed the face ( ball position and alignment) at impact controls the trajectories. not the hitting or swinging action. its possible to get high or low with hitting or swinging. Hitter can hits draw, Swinger can do fade with a change in hinge action.

I personally think the real difference in How to, between hitting and swinging is clearly separated in chapter 7-3.

I am pretty strong and I get longer hitting. At my low effort, its about my swinging length. And they are not that different execution wise , we don't need to consciously change 24 component to separate between a hit and a swing.

One very strong point about HITTING. superior control of the Hinge action. Don't call me a swinger, I will be offended !

Hitting with the driver
 

Well, you knew the insane one (that would be me) would have to disagree on many points.

Although I've taught some Tour Players, I do not play for a living. So, I shouldn't be included in your list of players. I'm a teacher that loves to play, and I wish I had more time to do so.

But, I am capable of Hitting. I have had sub-par rounds in tournaments using the procedure. And, I'm presently Hitting the ball very well. I was a bad Swinger.

In my second match of our 2006 Georgia Match Play Championship, I was 5 under on the 4 par fives (one eagle and three birdies). So, apparently, distance is not a problem for a Hitter.

Until I met Lynn, I had never met a Golfing Machine teacher that thought Hitting was a valid procedure. And, I knew many. Homer thought Hitting was equally useful, precise, and powerful. With him, I agree. I do not agree with the school of thought that Hitting is only for the short game. I don't know many that could truly describe the Angle of Approach Procedure. So, if anyone had ever tried to Hit, it was probably not pure.

As much as I'm ashamed to have to agree with Bucket :naughty: , it is overacceleration that ruins the ability to Hit a driver. Since we have no club longer than a driver, we add too much (early) speed when we want to Hit the ball hard. The slow Start Down for the Hitter (mentioned in 6-H-0) is mandatory.

Hitting is a lost art. But, I'm very happy to have found it.

So, no...I must not Swing.

300,

I switched to hitting and in 2 weeks I am HITTING my driver better than ever. I am sustaining the lag, I have video proof.

Funny.....Clearly, I suck at hitting, and my understanding of hitting sucks, no doubt about that.

Just because pros dont do it doesent make if invalid......We disagree on that one. If players at the highest level dont do it, its because it doesent hold up better than something else.

Also, not sure Trevino was a hitter, after all, if you listen to what "he said" he did, rather than "interpret" what you thought you saw, he was a swinger!

I guess my main point is.......why, oh, why, are there so many posters who have an inability to hit longer clubs well? (they are crying out for help) And, why can't the informed group on this site articulate a way to provide the necessary help?

Please do tell....What in the world suggests that players on the highest level have the correct information that would enable them to hit????? (Or players of the "lowest level", for that matter????) Even a player truely digs it out of the dirt, it is laughable to think that they are not influenced by popular instruction.

Also, there are people that hit well. Are you suggesting that they are "freaks of nature?" ( Or maybe they have and can apply the correct information.)

I was one of the one who had problems. I misunderstood Hitting as Hitting and forgot about rhythm. And for Hitting , without understanding Plane and what starts first etc, its much much easier to get over the top, steering, casting , not releasing etc.After all its Muscular intention, not CF throwout. When i understood plane etc, how everything interrelates , it really is much better hitting long irons, drivers and I would not go back to swinging .

Much much easier to control hinge action, and i believe i will be Longer Hitting than swinging for a long time to come.

The secret of hitting is in the videos vault here..

Pops . . . there are PLENTY of pros out there who SAY they use the right arm to accelerate the club . . . what do that make them?

Hogan said he did all kinds of stuff that he didn't do. Kenny Perry is a Hitter . . . but he probably doesn't know it.

How are we NOT supposed to go by what we see? I look at video and stills of Lee Buck I see Hitter . . . I don't care what he says. Pictures don't tell no lies. You tell me how Lee Buck looks like a Swinger?

Advice to Hit longer clubs better . . .

1. Buy a hybrid
2. learn to go all the way DOWN on Plane and OUT on plane.
3. Don't swing harder . . . OVERACCELERATE. Those shafts are longer for a reason. You don't have to create MASSIVE Lag Pressure because you can't sustain it.
4. As the clubs get longer people (I do) tend to place their mind on the CLUBHEAD and NOT the Hands. Focus on the hands. Swing with eyes closed . . . then Hit/Swing it.
5. People are more than likely Steering with the longer clubs.
6. Maintain the 1st Imperative to be sure that you get the full loft on the club.
7. People tend to turn Angled Hinging into Vertical Hinging thus the righties . . . On flatter planes (longer clubs) Angled Hinging tends to look more like Horizontal Hinging because there is less lay back. So be sure that your Hinging isn't Vertical.
8. Make sure you are aligning the clubface with the described procedure in 2-J-1 (I think that's where it is). You must align the face at address to correspond to the selected Hinging AND how hard you intend to hit the ball. Harder with Angled = More Closed . . . the ball is on the clubface longer and close to counter act the laying back. Harder with Horizontal = More Open . . . open to counter act the closing.

I'm sure others can come up with more.

......A list I can use, thanks 12 Piece.

Also read 7-11 and 10-11 as they relate to hitting. See that you (yes YOU!) must thrust against clubhead lag pressure (#3 PP). What if you're already starting to lose clubhead lag pressure (given that you now aren't relying on your friend cetrifugal force, admit that this is possible)???? I'd say that it would create a lot of problems (as far as getting the same distance as swinging) - as any transfer of power would be ruined.

No problemo Boss!

kenny perry is definitely not a hitter.i grew up with himand play alot of practice rounds with him.you can still have right arm participation and bea swinger.kenny can hitonly a hook,it is almost impossible to draw the ball using hitting motion,because of the geometric alignments.youmay hit controlled pulls but a draw hitting does not jive

I agree....and that's where Tommy Tomasello comes in with the Magic of the Right Forearm and Swinging.

GI: What happens to the shots of a player who executes these moves?

Tomasello: The player will immediately hit the ball higher and straighter, and substantially longer. The flight pattern will be dead straight to its apex, with the ball falling a touch left or drawing fractionally as it descends.

See the Tomasello Chapter Series #5 Video on Power and the Letter #3 video for drawing the ball references.

DG

Kenny has that little hitch just before his downswing. Do you suppose that makes it look like he's hitting to so many of us?

they're not so different
 

I think that many overlook the fact that there are more similarities in the patterns than there are differences. They're not polar opposites. I think that Homer said in a Master's class audio that the player might be the only one that knows what he's doing.

The Hitter has the 4 barrel option, if he wants to bomb one.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I hear Lynn say that each of you have different Hit patterns. Can you explain?

correct you are
 

Lynn uses Adjusted Address. I use Impact Address.

Lynn uses primarily 10-5-A. I use 10-5-A and 10-5-E.

Lynn can bounce between the patterns with ease. I do not Swing unless I'm demonstrating something in a lesson.

driver probs
 

300yd,I thought the very same thing for quite a while until one day,in a last ditch stand,I decided to literally smash as many drives as I can to try getting used to hitting with the hitting action,so much so I got plumb tuckered out,so much with my last 50 odd balls I pretty much just hit very half hearted almost given up ,when I noticed that I was hitting straight and strong and I was,nt hitting all that hard,that,s when I realised that I was just hitting too hard for my ability,and when I backed off I had actually started to hit very good drives using a lot less energy but still using action,hope you can follow my drift ....TERRY

Modest Ted.
 

Ted is being very modest here.
The Day before the Falcons fire school,he played at Eagle Creek in Orlando with some friends of mine.I told one of my friends to tell Ted on the tee that he could reach the 7th green if he bombed it across the O.B. on the right.
I forgot Ted was playing off the tips-it was 346 yards to the pin!.I was parked near the green and he carried it 320 -and just popped out of the rough another 5 yds.
Not bad for a hitter:eyes:

I just returned from the range where I worked the short game. I sort of made a decision this week to try hitting for my short game shots due to some terribly erratic rounds of golf lately, especially around the greens. I typically swing on all shots buy have studied and experimented on a few occasions with hitting and have waffled between the 2 procedures for shots around the green.

Anyway, some more things clicked for me and the consistency of my short game shots (various ones) seemed much better using:

- impact fix
- angled hingeing
- "heavy" extensor action (I always find extensor action easier to apply when hitting)
- punch elbow
- angle of approach
- distance control based on the amount of right arm "thrust"

Worked it around the greens for an hour or so and just had to go hit some full swing shots with it. I'm a real mental midget when it comes to fiddling with my swing, but I can't help it. I love working and tweaking my swing.

Anyway... I just seem to make more consistent center-face contact when hitting (or my interpretation of hitting). When I got to the Driver, I was hitting it "ok", straighter and more consistent, but not quite as solid or as long as when I make a "good" swinging motion. But (and to chime in on Bucket's comments) as I made a few adjustments, I realized my start-down seemed a little quick. When I focused more on the slooowwww start down the Driver got more solid and very close to the distance I achieve when swinging.

My game has been in a slump for about a month now so I've decided to sacrifice a couple of casual rounds and utilize a hitting motion for the weekend. I feel like I have a better understanding of the pattern primarily through incubation, and am anxious to see how it performs.

Drug Testing
 

This is exactly why I think there should be random drug testing in Golf! Oh, By the way Ted- the Steroid manufacturer accidently included your weekly order in my shipment- do you want me to forward it to you? Or can you get by with a swinging motion for a week or two? Last time you did that - you complained about that nasty Rash that developed.

Damn it Mike!!! When are you going to get this right!!! We go over this every week before you watch Josey and the Pussycats . . . the medication you take is for HEMroids . . . you are NOT taking steroids. Now go back to the chair, sit on your dougnut, calm down and watch Barney.

Sorry
 

Sorry! I'm such an idiot! Why do you keep yelling at me all the time!:crybaby: Leave me alone.:crybaby:

You guys!!!!!!!!!!!!:headbang: :shock: [-X :twisted:

I can't remember who on this thread said it's impossible for a hitter to draw, but I believe that to be completely untrue. I am as much as hitter as almost anyone. If I want to draw the ball or even hook the ball, I move the plane line to the right(right handed golfer), and hood the face slightly. Bang, draws all day long.

I prefer the fade though, as the draw can get away from you.

Equal Opportunity Employers
 

Both Hitter and Swinger can Hook or Fade the Ball at will. All that is required is that the player create a divergence between the Clubhead Path and the Clubface Alignment. The particular Thrust employed -- Centrifugal (Swinging) or Muscular (Hitting) -- is irrelevant.

That said, the Hitter employing Angled Hinging, which by its nature is a slice-producing, uncentered motion, will naturally Fade the Ball unless he aligns the Clubface slightly closed at Impact Fix.