Definitions- Back to Basics
 

Please provide the definition for the following two terms in your own words. For extra credit- provide your specific references from the Golfing Machine Book to support your definition.

Right Arm Swing-


Pure Hitting-

What's the extra credit??? :shock:
Can I play?...huh...huh...please...???
I'll be good, promise.:liar:

Extra Credit
 

Extra Credit- Just means extra Kudos from me!

Yes, you can play- anyone can play. In fact, the sooner the better - I'd like to see this thread be a short one. It's not that tough.

For additional extra credit- you can also include what it is not. That information may help clarify the particular concept.

Homer Work
 

I still have a homerwork assignment that Annikan gave me a few weeks ago and a couple of new videos to work on, but I smell what you are asking for.

Wheweee - what a stinker!

So guys - MikeO is looking for tried and true TGM definitions. Not someone elses interpretation. Dig in and be a MikeO hero - If I make him like me, he'll have to search for another fan subject.

P.S. - MikeO is another old dude that hung out with Homer back in the day. Don't let his swing video fool you - that was a stand in.

Right Arm Swing=right elbow is center of the stroke NOT the left shoulder.

Pure Hitting . . . no such thing . . . hitting is pushing period.

I put toe jam in your coffee this morning by the way.

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Right arm swing
As B-man, Right wrist is center instead of Left shoulder.

In the book you find it under 7-19
The “Right Arm Swing” is simply 10-3-K with the loosened Wrists (7-1) and longitudinal acceleration using 7-19-3 above. Only with this “Rope Handle” procedure can the Right Arm be said to “Swing” – and still per 1-L-9 and -10. But with the Axe Handle procedures there must be a straight line piston to avoid injury of the right elbow ligaments. So, if there is a twinge in the elbow, you are Swinging the Right Arm.

Pure Hitting
Ted Fort:laughing9

A player that uses what you will find under 6-H-0-E

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A wannabe of BAST (Bucket All Star Team) :confused1

Right Arm Swing
 

Right Elbow Center of stroke- with longitudinal acceleration-nice job! One down and One to go.

Now, we just need to properly define Pure Hitting.

Sooo, You did not like my suggestion - Ted Fort !!!

Ok, lets try with this then

Pure Hitting is when you keep centrifugal force out of your motion.

Ted Fort!!

TGM Terms
 

For me- using TGM terms - Pure=True

That's 7-2 - True Swinging or True Hitting.

Pure Hitting would be when the acceleration method- pushing - automatically aligns the clubface. As opposed to "Hand Manipulaton", i.e. consciously or subconsciously- making sure you arrive at impact with a flat, level and vertical left wrist - assuming that you took your grip that way.

In a left arm swing, the right arm push.
In a right arm swing, the right arm Swings around the right elbow and the left swing along with it, and flat left wrist is no longer an imperative...

----------------------------
So....

Anything which allow CF throwout is swinging or works like a sling. Allow the assembly to work like a Flail. True swinger.

And another side of the extreme , true hitter. Muscular drive out. True hitter.


Then there is somewhere in between. This is where its a little Grey...

IMPO. As long as the right, forearm supports the secondary assembly , CF throwout in the picture, left arm have 2 hinges and pulled like a rope. if the forearm supports Primary assembly, there is no way to get CF throwout and the left arm becomes a brick wall as there is only one hinge.

and if this"passive" extensor action pulls the PP 1+3 , I believe the extensor action is more "active" than the extensor action just pulling via pp 3 ..

7-3 explains of such combination of extensor action. Merely on PP3 will have extreme " throwaway" . Thus with PP 1 + PP3 could be preferred on full swing ,

PP1 an PP3 pulling of extensor action, will have effect on how to setup the Flail. thus create different type of Slinging action. but both are swinging...
one look more softer and wristy with more "throw'. one look more powerful with more "drive". 7-3 right forearm have to be thrown or driven .

Vertical to what?

Good Luck!

Vertical
 

Vertical to the ground.

7-10 6th edition 4th paragraph- vertical to the ground at impact (fix)

its in the book ...

I -F. RIGHT ARM OR LEFT The "mystery" of the Mechanics of Golf fades away when Right Arm participation is understood (6-B-1). Whether its participation is active or passive is difficult to detect visually because in either case the Left Arm is ALWAYS SWINGING and the Right Forearm is ALWAYS DRIVING. But it is always a Left Arm Stroke unless the Right Elbow replaces the Left Shoulder as the center of the Club head Arc. (10-3-K)This, alone, does not properly separate "Hitters" and "Swingers" because it is possible to "Swing" the Club with either Arm but only the Right Arm can actually "Hit".

10-3-K.
BAT The term "Bat" indicates that the Club is being accelerated by the Right Arm (1-F) but always with an Axe Handle procedure per 2-K, 6-B-1 and 10-11-0. It is always a "Hit" per 10-19-A, except as noted in 1-F and 7-19. Study 7-1. The center of the Club head orbit is readily transferred from the Left Shoulder to the Right Elbow. The Right Arm now is actually driving the Club head rather than the Left Arm and the Flat Left Wrist is now helpful but not essential


so...

What part of the wrist?

There is no way in the world a golf stroke can be accomplished without the right arm driving.
A driving right arm does not mean it is pushing against a pulling Left arm. It means it is driving to be straight- it is always driving, not always PUSHING. A major difference because pushing is an action and driving is a motion. It is hard to see the difference between the motion of accum3 and accum1.


So.. if you like to bent the left wrist and push with it with the right arm- go ahead ... and good luck. If you want to go with a Right Arm Swing, the "Bat" - go ahead and good luck.

But to me a flat Left wrist is an Imperative for all strokes especially Swinging. It is the left arm Flying Wedge. I don't play without them.

Jack Daniels
 

First, stop drinking! But I'll play with ya- awhile longer.

We're using the "wrist" in Golfing Machine terms- Chapter 4.

Actually the "wrist" is composed of 8 bones and I'm not talking about any of them- since visually they are of no practical help. In regards to the concept "flat left wrist" - It's the relationship of the back of the hand to the forearm- we could break out the bone relationships but you get the idea- unless you are into the second bottle:shock:

In regards to the concept "vertical left wrist"- It's the relationship of an (open flat hand and the forearm) to the ground i.e. back of the hand and forearm against a door. Then you take the grip. After gripping the club, the back of the hand from pinky to thumb normally doesn't form a flat surface. If you were trying to determine "vertical" to the ground at that point- you'd need to use the middle of the back of the hand for the best reference.

If you haven't passed out - I'll give you one more before I start drinking.:eyes:

What if you got a different . . . hiccup . . . grip type? What's vertical then?

Chapter 10-2
 

Maybe nothing then. That's why in post #11 I said 'assuming you take the grip with the left wrist vertical.

Homer's point in 10-2-G is that if you don't have some visual geometric validation for any particular feel- then as he says "Feel loses it geometric basis" and that's why he mentions the "True" Swing in 10-2-G because those grips are theoretically speaking only ideal if one were a "True" Swinger whereby centrifugal force automatically aligns the clubface- in relation to the body i.e. how far back or up it is in relation to the pivot. As opposed to a Ball related "manipulated swinger" where by while you are still using centrifugal force for accelerating the shaft- but you over-ride the automated alignment of the clubface based on the line of pull through the longitudinal center of gravity and you just make sure that you come into impact with the left wrist in its correct alignment- whatever that is that you may have pre-chosen.

It's like two layers of using Centrifugal force- the first layer is for the clubshaft and if you just completely let it control everything then the second layer is for the clubface.

?
 

Nuke,
I always prefer a post that stays on one topic and limits it coverage area- tough to follow or respond for me- but that's just me maybe and not your post.

From the start your post throws me- "A left arm swing the right arm push"? Lost you there. No it doesn't have to push- for example I've seen one armed left hand golfers make golf swings. You could do the same thing and just have the right arm on for the ride. Beyond some other comments in your post, your first comment is just confusing for me.

Also, just because the right tricep is one of the muscles straightening the right arm doesn't mean that you have a hitting motion nor would it mean that it is a right arm stroke- i.e. right elbow center of stroke. I've been fly casting with Bucket (well not really but I wanted to include him in my post- poor guy has no friends!) and I used just my right hand and arm to swing it out there- I've also taken a wet towel with my right hand and arm and smacked some ...... never-mind that's another "swinging" story.

But before we get off topic too far- I identified in the book a section or two that supported my answer that "Pure" or "True" meant a reliance on the acceleration method to align the clubface. You stated a different answer for what "True" is in Golfing Machine Terminology- so please back that up with your references.

Thanks

Mike,

Did not realise its off topic .. he he ...

The true is out there...
 

Pure in a dictionary sense means free from..., or unmixed with any other matter. Mike, I think I understand where you are trying to go, but am not sure we can get there. Are you looking for why Hinge Action was moved to Zone 2 (Power, Arms, Force), being a by-product of strictly an Angular Motion?

True Hitting, as I think you are looking for, would mean per 2-M-3, Power Package Thrust alone, forfeiting Momentum Transfer. Also, per 6-B-3-0, True "Drive Out" (yes, I know that it was changed to Throw Out in the 7th edition; a mistake IMHO) Action holds the clubface in Impact Fix alignmnet and automatically produces Angled Hinging.

"True Hitter" is also referenced in 7-2 regarding Clubface Alignments.

Hey, Bucket pass me another cold one =P~ .

Vertical is vertical, whatever your grip type; either the wrist is or isn't. I don't think that "vertical" is relative. If you play with a 90* turned left hand grip at impact, then it won't be vertical to the ground until very well after impact, unless you're happy with going left of left.

Specifics
 

Nuke,
As I said before, my issue wasn't that you were off topic, but that you covered too many issues and I wasn't necessarily following any of them that well. That may be my problem in understanding and not yours. But if we are going to have a "true" debate- and make any headway - we each need to understand what the other person is saying.

For me, Intelligent disagreement is an exciting thing to have- because it always holds the opportunity for learning, growth, etc. My previous post had some questions that I was hoping that you would answer which would help me understand one of your points- but you can let it fade away into the sunset if you want .. he he ...

StinkyMike . . . what is Manipulated Hands Swinging?

Post 19
 

Post#19 * How's Jack?

You're going to vote for Hillary Clinton right?

Foul. Sorry. I was washing off all the doo doo from post #24.

So back to manipulating with the hands . . . a subject you surely have achieved 7th degree black belt shotokon warrior status in . . . just in a certain non-G.O.L.F. consideration.

If we are overriding cf aligning clubface . . . what hinge action is used?

HHN08.

L8RT8RNUTZ.

Politics
 

I guess I should keep up on my politics a little better- because I missed that one- But somehow I'm feeling a serious hurt!:crybaby:

Bucket worship
 

:salut: You are the man. Congrats to an amazing multitasker.

Oh boy . . . .

Guys "The Man" has just busted me. I'm sure the pink slip will be on the desk promptly in the morning.

Hey Mikey can you FedEx the box of Crayons with the sharpener? I'm going to need to brush up my resume . . .

How do you spell Yaile and Harverd?

Mr. Parrott didn't think you'd join the dork set. Welcome aboard. Figured you'd get a little more creative with the handle . . . quarterTWISTER maybe?

Another time boss.

The sun will still up tomorrow.

No Holds Barred
 

Not to worry Bucket. Macparrot and I have been talking since June of this year. I've given him all of the dirt. Once you went past my post count, it was gloves off!

Life's too short to worry about anything but a misaligned component!

Talk about risk!

P.S. - If you put your website link in your profile Macparrot has agreed to visit Lynn and take lessons from you.

You're officially sicker than Mikey!

www.parrottinsurance.com pimps of all insurance all day everyday.

May you die a 1000 painful deaths.

MikeO and I have some "everyday" risks.

Can y'all underwrite brain damage from trying to decifer cryptic messages from top posters with ADHD?

Seriously though, you can write me up for a policy. Now that my son is out of the house, we are low risk and high dollar.

By the way - There is a lot more definition to get to on this thread IMHO. But if MikeO is happy, I'm not taking any risks.

You said you drive a benzo 500 series right? Or is that what you tell everybody when you roll up in the Turbo Festiva and say . . . This is what I drive when my benz is in the shop?

If you got the smack mac has got your back. How many million you need?

Mike O can't even spell definishun.

Yep and a pickup cause they don't let you into Texas without one.
MikeO needs Fire, Mudslide and Riot help in Socal. Not to mention his personal issues. Do ya'll handle litigation and flight risk?

Call me!
 

Bucket,
Call me - we need to join forces- my boss got a call from Bagger last week. We need to re-align against that sick puppy!

As far as insurance- Let's wait and see if MacDaddy can make it past 5 posts- and prove he's the real thing. However, if I was Bagger I'd be loading up on insurance!!! So it's no surprise that he is. By the way, do you have golf insurance- you know "over the top", "three putt" insurance, etc. or do I need to go to Lloyd's of London for that stuff. I just want to make sure that the first 18 I play with the insurance- on the third hole when I come over the top and pull hook it out of bounds that you're not going to cancel my policy when I make my claim!

As far as the type of Hinge action- whatever you want- depends on your stroke, tendencies, ball flight pattern.

With Nuke out of the picture- maybe we should just turn this thread into the MacDaddy & RC insurance thread. Are you insuring anything- anywhere? What about commercial buildings in California? Or we could talk about that when we discuss the very serious Bagger situation. Even BamBam realizes something needs to be done!

Another way to look at it....

The farther 'up plane' your impact, the more the left wrist is in a 'turned' position. Part of the reason that the back of the left hand should match the angle of approach, not face the target. All of course subject to the rest of the machines alignments and the intended result.

How about this here for a procedure for Horizontal Hinging with a Turned Left Hand . . .

Club chest high on a horizontal plane with a 10-2-B grip. Now just move the club where it would be through impact with the club vertical to the horizontal plane. Now turn the grip and drop it down on the angled plane. It's kinda liike the thumbpad of the left hand has to stay vertical???

Holla back.