Angle of Approach Procedure & Right Forearm
 

When using the Angle of Approach Procedure do I adjust my Impact Fix Alignments to place the Right Forearm On Plane with the steeper Plane required, or do I use my original Turned Shoulder Plane, in my case, Fix alignments and let the covering of the Angle of Approach dictate the steep Plane? I've researched the book and haven't found what I think are any definitive answers.

Per 7-2-3 the back of the Flat Left Wrist and the #3 PP both face down the Angle of Approach.

Per 7-3, "The "Angle of Approach" position of the Right Forearm shows the precise Cross-Line direction the Forearm must take through Impact." And, "The Right Forearm must leave -- and precisely return to -- its own Fix Position (7-8) "Angle of Approach" (regardless of the true Clubhead Angle of Approach)." I understand that this refers to visual Impact Point and Crossline direction of Thrust.

Per 2-N-0, "This 'Delivery Line' procedure completely replaces the geometric Plane Line (2-F) and the Target Line because these were established at Impact Fix (7-8) according to the intended Hinge Action (2-J-1) and Stance Line (10-5) requirements, and their control is completely automatic."

This leads me to believe I don't adjust the Impact Fix alignments since we're dealing with a VISUALLY Equivalent Delivery Line for the Impact and the use of the Angle of Approach is to guide Clubhead delivery.

But then, the Index refers to 10-5-0 for Angle of Approach Procedure where the book says, "The relations among Plane Line, Angle of Approach and Ball Location are constant per 2-N. Changing one changes all three and ususally, Plane Angle as well, but not necessarily the Clubface alignment (2-J-1). All can be synchronized by 'Laying the Clubshaft on the Line' (the selected Plane Line) during the 'Parallel to the Ground' (2-F) portions of the Stroke."

10-5-0 throws me off, which leads me to my question. I'm leaning towards using my original Fix alignments and letting the Clubhead covering of the 10-5-E guideline take care of Plane Angle. It seems to me that this would take care of any shifting necessary for steepness and still allow me to return at Impact to my Impact Fix alignments. 2-N-0 also tells me that "The orbiting Clubhead must maintain its visual relationship to the Delivery Line, per 2-F and 2-J-3, during all Twelve Sections...". What do any of you Hitters do when using the Angle of Approach Procedure?

Thanks.

great post
 

Until I met Lynn, NO ONE had ever been able to explain 2-J-3 to me in it's totality.

Your post shows a great deal of insight. I'll shed some light on some of Homer's comments about 10-5-E. Compare these comments to what's found in the book and see if they help to connect any of the dots. Then, let's talk again. Each of these random comments are taken from one of the Master's classes and are direct quotes from Homer.

"you've got a plane that's going to trace that line"

"It's steep, now remember. For this reason, you can't point at the line with the clubshaft. To point at the line with the right forearm, it's going to be a steeper plane."

"The original plane is gone - don't even think about it. It's totally replaced."

"This procedure is very upright."

"You're not concerned with the clubshaft."

"The clubshaft seems to be immaterial."

"It's not a true on plane motion."

"Actually, it's a vertical plane for the clubhead" (slight pause) "slightly inclined."

"It represents a clubhead plane rather than a clubshaft plane."

"Line momentum of the clubhead."

One of my original teachings in TGM was that it was the same as the original plane, but it was just an illusion that the clubhead was traveling in a straight line. Thank God I met Lynn, and he told me the truth.

Time (And Truth) In A Bottle
 

You've done your homework, young Luke.

From my gentle nudges, to the recorded words of Homer Kelley and finally, your own rite of passage, a.k.a. 'digging it out of the dirt'. . .

Your post is a priceless treasure.

For those who seek Truth, it is necessary only to recognize and embrace the gift.

:salut:

hurdles on the path
 

Hitting has long been misunderstood, ignored, and discounted, even in TGM circles. So, I knew that there were concepts that I was missing from previous instruction and that I had a long road ahead. I started looking at the Angle of Approach Delivery Line, because of 6-H-0, #10. Also, Homer spoke at length about AADL in another Master's class. So, I became totally intrigued with 2-J-3.

I wanted to understand the geometry, and I knew that the clubhead had to (visually) move in a straight line. The only way that I could fathom the clubhead moving in a visual straight line and the circular orbit of the clubhead staying intact was for the eyes to be on the Plane of the clubhead orbit. In the beginning, I was troubled as the Plane seemed to be steeper than anything I knew to be acceptable. ("It's steep, now remember. For this reason, you can't point at the line with the clubshaft. To point at the line with the right forearm, it's going to be a steeper plane. This procedure is very upright. Actually, it's a vertical plane for the clubhead, (slight pause), slightly inclined."

Then, I had issues with the Clubshaft. I didn't want to violate any of the 21 commandments in 1-L. But, the geometry left 1-L, #5 & #6 in jeopardy. His quotes verified my beliefs: "You're not concerned with the clubshaft. The clubshaft seems to be immaterial. It represents a clubhead plane rather than a clubshaft plane. Line momentum of the clubhead."

What adjustments in loft/lie have you found necessary for this procedure, for yourself as well as students?

shaft angle change
 

Usually, the only difference that I see is less variance between Address shaft angle and Impact shaft angle. Since we test Impact dynamically on a lie board, it matters less what they look like at Address. I'm sure you've seen plenty of people with the toe of the club off the ground at Address that also marked it perfectly at Impact. I know for a long time it looked like Mac was tying his shoes at Address, but his shaft angle looked normal at Impact.

But, I find very little (if any) difference in the way I'm marking the club when using 10-5-A or 10-5-E.

8cork
 

As an aside, anyone that attended the Falcon's Fire school saw the most remarkable transformation that I've ever seen when someone changed to 10-5-E.

8cork was remarkable in almost no time when he tried the procedure. He went from shanking every ball to pure 3-D Impact. I know his life changed that day, and I think he still shoots in the 70's. I have no idea what his scores were with the shanks.

Ted,

When using AoA...
Still a few clouds...:eyes:

Why is the shaft on a steeper plane?
Doesn´t the shaft point at the closed planeline?
When you teach people AoA, do you than put them closed-closed.
Where does the clubface point in a closed-closed scenario, let´s say with a seven iron ?
Do you use AoA?

Thank´s!

it's a clubhead plane
 

I can use either 10-5-A or 10-5-E.

"You're not concerned with the clubshaft. The clubshaft seems to be immaterial. It represents a clubhead plane rather than a clubshaft plane."

So, you have to disregard the shaft and think outside the box. Think of the clubhead moving on a steep Plane, with the clubshaft somewhat internal to the circular orbit of the clubhead.

Can you explain what the clubhead plane is?

Thank´s

imagination needed
 

If you can imagine a circle lying on a flat surface, a Plane. If two marks were made on the Plane (Impact and Low Point), the circle could touch those points if laid flat on the Plane. Or, the circle could pass through the surface of the original Plane, touching only those two points. This would represent a steeper circle that satisfies Impact and Low Point, or a new steeper Plane.

The Sweet Spot is the thing that needs to travel on Plane.

If you can find this information ANYWHERE else, you've had better luck than me. Because, I've looked. And, don't try to hurry the process. Some of these things just have to incubate.

Thanks Ted. That day in Florida completely changed my golfing life. My wife is also very thankful because I now spend much more time with the family than on that obsessive search for the perfect golf swing. I don't overthink anything anymore, 10-5-E is second nature for me. Just trust the Geometry.
I played last week for the first time in a couple of weeks. That's a long layoff for me. After a few range balls to loosen up, I went out with a 35, not as solid on the back but I managed a 75 that day. Not bad for a 10 handicap 6 to 8 months ago.

awesome
 

Two weeks off and out in 35...that's great for anyone. Have you gone under par for 18 yet?

I shot 70 in August off the white tees 6460 yds. I really don't want to count that. I shot 73 1 over at the ironhorse course at Vanderbilt legends club from the tips. Probably the best I have ever played. I also shot 3 under on my home course from the tips with the club pro on a nine hole lesson round. That was very cool, I nipped him by 2 strokes. Needless to say, I didn't learn much that day.
I don't mean to be bragging, but everyone should know that Homer's work, applied by LBG is a deadly combination.

Search Party
 

My post #3 here should help you understand these concepts:

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ad.php?p=45971

There is a treasure of information in the archives, including more on this topic. I encourage readers to use the 'search' function to learn more about any area of interest. Just click on 'search' on the task bar at the top of the page, enter the desired key words and go!

The Legends courses
 

Those are great results. Keep up the good work.

You know that I play at the Legends every time I go to see my best friend in Franklin, TN. I'll have to tell you next time I come, so we can tee it up.

There is Buried Treasure in the Archives
 

Yoda,

Being fairly new to the site. I believe your statement is 100 percent accurate concerning the archives at Lynnblakegolf.com. They are a vast treasure. I hope they are protected.

Bingo!
 

YodasLuke,

Thank you so much for posting. I would have responded sooner but my cable modem has been toast. It only takes close to a week to get a cable tech to come out to the house. Gotta love the rural life. Nothing happens quickly.

Anyway, those quotes from Homer confim my findings. In fiddling with the procedure I found exactly what he's saying to be true. I too was concerned because I found the travel of the club with the clubhead covering a straight line to be steep as can be. "Actually, it's a vertical plane for the clubhead" (slight pause) "slightly inclined." Feels odd at first. I kept working it though because I was trusting 2-J-3-B. I knew a circle on a inclined plane can appear to be a straight line from viewing circles at different angles. If you look directly down on a plate or hula-hoop, etc. you see a straight line. That object can be slightly tilted and still visually appear straight. By using Angle of Approach I find a Hitter is guaranteed inside-out impact. :) I like the straight line feel of the clubhead because it feels right with the straight line thrust of the right arm.

These ring particuarly true for me:

"You're not concerned with the clubshaft."

"The clubshaft seems to be immaterial."

"It represents a clubhead plane rather than a clubshaft plane."

"Line momentum of the clubhead."

I'm still not sure why 10-5-0 reads the way it does about synchronizing by laying the shaft on the line. Especially when he says this in a Master's class, "It's not a true on plane motion." I'm still thinking on that one.

So, from the posts and my own findings it seems the thing to do is: setup with proper alignments at Impact Fix, locate the straight line Angle of Approach through impact and low points, let the Clubhead cover the delivery line and let 'er rip.

I like it.

Monitoring
 

YodasLuke,

Out of curiousity, do you further steepen the plane and trace it with your right forearm per 5-0, or do you just monitor the clubhead covering through you hands? Basically, what's your swing thought when using Angle of Approach? I'm just starting to seriously explore using this procedure and wonder how someone whose well versed with it does it. Any recommendations?

I love Hitting and am so thankful this forum offers a place to learn, grow and increase one's knowledge and understanding of the Hitting Pattern. I like the feeling of control when Hitting. Your right there's not much information out there, but LBG is a treasure chest. Swinging always made me feel like a top when it spins off the table. :eyes:

Thanks again.

covering
 

Mainly, I cover the line with the Clubhead. It forces the steepness of the Plane. Homer was asked why it was such a good procedure. And, he said he didn't really know. But, he thought it might be because it went so well with Steering.

Delivery Lines: Right Forearm Versus Clubhead
 

The Right Forearm always Traces -- points at -- one of the three selected Delivery Lines (2-J-3):

1. The True Geometric Plane Line (usually the Target Line);

2. The Arc of Approach;

3. The Angle of Approach.

The Clubhead may Trace -- point at -- the True Geometric Plane Line and simultaneously cover the Arc of Approach. Alternatively, the Clubhead may simply cover -- not Trace -- the Angle of Approach.

Y & YL,

Inbucator working to max regarding this one.

If my right forearm traces one of the 3 delivery lines - Which will my sweetspot trace/cover?

I´ve got the impression from the promotors of Vision Tracker that even if I trace nr 1 the sweetspot will come on the Alternate Target Line:confused:

Hi Ted, (my bold in your quotes)

You mean that it is a form of "Geometrically educated" steering?

ie. take a golfer who has , through incorrect knowledge, been steering the clubhead along the ball to target line...

Allow them to keep a steering staright line clubhead concept...but re-educate them as to the line that needs to be covered??

Is that right??

If you trace the Arc of approach, would'nt that bend the plane line?

Homer's words
 

It's not my idea. That was Homer's idea, when asked about the Angle of Approach Delivery Line.

As the Plane approaches Vertical, the Hinge Action approaches Vertical Hinging. If the Plane becomes more Horizontal, the Hinge Action would approach Horizontal Hinging.

I would pay large sums of $$$$ to have been a fly on the wall in Homer's garage, when Lynn was taking his Master's class. (Although, I would have still been in diapers :naughty: ) I think Yoda had a club in his hands when Homer was trying to get everyone to see the Angle of Approach. Homer seemed to have an infinite amount of patience, but you could hear a slight frustration in his voice when he was trying to get everyone to ignore the Clubshaft. It sounded like everyone was still trying to see a visual arc, when using the new Delivery Line. I'm sure Yoda could give a better account of the situation, since all I've heard is the audio.

Vision
 

I think what truly blows my mind is the fact that Homer visualized and developed this procedure. Obviously, this wasn't and still isn't something that was considered or seen as a way to deliver the clubhead. I'd have to say the man was a GENIUS. He was way ahead of his time.

Hat's off to Homer for leaving us this wonderful work. :salut:

Yes, yes. This quote threw me off for a second, "It's steep, now remember. For this reason, you can't point at the line with the clubshaft. To point at the line with the right forearm, it's going to be a steeper plane."
I didn't thoroughly think through/understand what Homer was saying. At first I thought he was saying it's steep to begin with and if you trace it with the Right Forearm it will be STEEPER. A bit of a dumbspell on my part. Sometimes when trying to understand a more abstract concept my brain forgets the basics.

Thanks for the dopeslap. :eyes: It's much appreciated.

TrackMan
 

It depends on what is doing the tracing (of the Arc of Approach).

:)

If you use your Right Forearm to trace, there is no bending of the Geometric Plane Line (the Baseline of the Inclined Plane). Remember, the Right Forearm simply is not long enough to cover the Arc of Approach; hence, it can only trace it. As the Right Forearm traces the Arc of Approach, the Clubhead covers it (and the Clubshaft remains On Plane and pointing at the Plane Line).

However, if you use the Clubhead to trace, then you are correct. In this instance, the Plane Line will indeed be bent. In fact, it will be bent anew every split second of the stroke.

The Hatchery
 

Again, the Right Forearm always traces the selected Delivery Line. Then, depending on the procedure being used, the Sweetspot covers either the Arc of Approach or the Angle of Approach.

Unless the player is deliberately employing a Steering (3-F-7-A) technique, the Sweetspot never covers the Geometric Plane Line (Baseline of the Inclined Plane). Except, of course, at the Separation of Ball and Clubface after Impact.

clubhead plane
 

Please explain,I,m confused,I have been pointing my shaft at target line,mind you,the hit is still good,perhaps a little low,but they fly straight as arrows.(the good ones).I realise you are saying,"ignore shaft",but ,what and how do we ensure c/head is on plane,if in fact the clubshaft is more vertical,would this make one feel "lag" more so?.This is a great thread guys ,me,I still looking for answers.Dont think I,ll ever go back to swingers pattern again,love the feel of the "HIT"

10-5-a
 

Angle of Approach isn't the only way. It is one way. You can still use 10-5-A to Hit. It makes it easier to switch between patterns, if that's a desire.

Two ways
 

When you get your book you'll want to study 2-J-3. There you'll find the Delivery Line options.

The basic Delivery Line is the True Geometric Plane Line. This one, per 1-L-6, you point at with the clubshaft. Point at the Plane Line NOT the Target Line. There is also, the one being discussed in this thread, the 2-J-3-B straight line Angle of Approach Delivery Line. It's what is known as a "Visual Equivalent". This one you cover with the Clubhead and ignore the clubshaft.

Be sure to read the link Yoda gave in his post #15 in this thread. Also, as he recommended, use the search function and search for Angle of Approach. There are quite a few good threads on this website.

Good luck! As you'll find Angle of Approach is a tricky subject, but certainly one that can be understood.

Yoda, aren't the arc of approach, angle of approach and plane line on one and the same plane? It would seem to me to be the case so the right forearm to trace these at the same time.

Understanding and Utilizing Delivery Line Illusions
 

More precisely, the two Visual Equivalents (of the Geometric Plane Line) -- the Arc and Angle of Approach -- are the illusions that appear to the player to be on the ground. It is the Arc and Angle of Attack that are on the Inclined Plane itself.

When you use the 'on the ground' Angle of Approach as the Delivery Line, you abandon the original Plane Angle (with its Geometric Plane Line) and substitute a steeper one erected on the Angle of Approach. The Right Forearm then traces the new 'Inside-Out' Baseline, and the Sweetspot covers it.

Click here to watch Lynn-and-Ted-Angle-of-Approach
Upload at Putfile

Apology to Lynn if i have done wrong by ediing footage and reposting but i found this helpful.

Sorry - link not working - it is at about 3 mins 35 seconds in the preshot routine hitters section with Lynn and Ted.... Ted's target line plane line "evaporates" and all he then ses is the "dleivery line"...going from 7-1 o' clock ( if 12 is the target)....

Thanks Yoda for clearing up the difference between approach and attack angles.

The sweetspot can only cover the angle of approach during the interval of ball to low point? Beyond these two points the sweetspot will cover an arc of approach?

be the line, Danny
 

No. The covering happens much longer than that, not just from Impact to Low Point.

Thanks Yodasluke. Just came back from the practice range using the angle of approach. Experimenting with hitting I'm more accurate with hitting. I looked at the video of you with Lynn, and noticed that your left shoulder barely moved at start up and then left arm loads against the chest during the backstroke(pp4 loading). At start down do you feel pp4 loading increase? This is what I felt and thought I should clarify whether this is compatible with hitting. This site is really great.

My approach to the Angle of Approach
 

Here's how I've been doing it:

- Setup with 10-5-A Plane Line.
- Ball Position set with Clubface aligned for Angled Hinging.
- Visualize straight line Angle of Approach through Impact and Low Points.
and extended in both directions.
- Grip taken in Impact fix with, per 7-2-3, back of Flat Left Wrist and #3
PP facing down the Angle of Approach.
- Right Forearm "On Plane", Turned Shoulder, and facing down the Angle
of Approach, showing precise Cross-Line direction of Thrust through
Impact.
- Machine setup adjusted per 7-2-4. Flat, Level, and Vertical Left Wrist
with Club soled and aligned for Impact.
- 10-5-A Plane Line evaporates leaving 10-5-E, ONLY, to cover with the
Clubhead
- Make Total Motion with Clubhead covering the Angle of Approach. The
covering creates the steepness of the new Plane. The Delivery, is
then the Wheel Track Motion, with the Right Forearm and #3 PP tracing
the Delivery Line.

I believe this is accurate. This should have alginments set, and verified, per 3-F-5, Forward Press. Grip per 7-2 and Right Forearm alignment per 7-3. And the Delivery per 7-23 Wheel Track Motion.

Please let me know if I'm missing anything.

That sounds like a good "how to" list - thanks! Helps me alot.:golf: