Returning To Hitting '09
 

Firstly I wish all here a Happy and Prosperous New Year
I have tried very hard in the last 8 mths to learn swingers teqnique,some results have been very pleasing,some not.
I have vowed and declared that I will be returning to and staying with H/pattern for '09 ,possibly beyond (god willing) . My aim for the '09 year is to get down to 4 hcp(presently 7).So Ted ,heaps of questions coming in the near future.....Cheers and Happy New year to all at LBG

join the club
 

I'm glad you're ready to get in touch with your masculine side. :monky: I'll do my best to help, so let the questions fly.

Backswing anology
 

Ted,I came across a anology regarding hitters backswing in the archives here,it was to do with the action of the card dealer dealing the last card to player on his right (FANNING ACTION) with R/forearm. I had I believe been doing it wrong,I was in fact using the lawnmower action which was causing me trouble under pressure.
My shots would go left in a big way,I also think it was causing a misuse of ACCs 2-3.Your help here would be grateful...Cheers

no lawnmowers!
 

The lawnmower move is one of the worst things I've seen in modern instruction. It's a famous fad at the moment, but it has no geometric basis or advantage. I don't care how many "planes" you're trying to use. It's garbage. Have I made myself clear, without being too politically correct?

I'm glad you found that gem. Because, it will have a profound effect on #1, #2, and #3 accumulators.

Thanks
 

Thank you Ted,That was Q 1,no doubt there will be many more,thanks again

Good Feeling
 

ARRGHH,I felt the dark side return today...PP#3
LAG---YES

YOu being an ex pro boxer, Id tend to think that hitting is right for you. Active arm extension being like a jab. Did you dance around the ring? Wonder if it will relate to your pivot. Maybe boxing is the sport most like golf? Weird thought.

OB

Footwork
 

Good point OB,that is actually a real problem for me,boxing I was always weight to toe,where as golf probably leans to heels more so...I guess

I can see that, a boxers weight towards the toes like a runner, in the direction that you are going, punching. Whereas golf being rotational you need it more centered. But we also need our weight left at impact for most shots. Sort of like taking a jab to your extreme left across your body, with the right shoulder down low close to what you are aiming at (the ball) and then extend right through it. The right shoulder being like a launching pad. Some hitters have more pivot than others, some boxers dance, some drag there back foot around the center of the ring like Norton. Either way they can hurt you or compress the ball.

You know VJ Trolio was an amateur boxer, golden gloves if memory serves me right. Luke packs a punch on the course too. He's lights out long from a pretty steady platform. He'd be a back foot dragger I bet if he was a boxer maybe, although he was a runner in school.


OB

.44 magnum
 

I'm a lover, not a fighter! That's why I carry the .44 magnum with a 7 1/2" barrel. The game's called Ted wins; there's no fighting. &D: Yoda was a little freaked out when he rode in my car for the first time and saw my pea shooter. :laughing9

This is the only time Ill think of you and Correy Pavin at the same time.

He had a pea shooter according to Ernie. You acknowledge yours. I think they're a little different though.

OB

Whats next
 

Luke,Im pretty relaxed about takeaway and startdown waggle,my 2nd Question for you is
Is the startdown all tricep initiated and at what place in downswing does R/shoulder begin its downward journey
Hope it makes sense..Thanks in advance

Drag, then Drive
 

No. Don't straighten the Right Arm from the Top.

You want to Deliver the bent Right Arm into Release. Straightening later is better. I Drag the club in Start Down via the Pivot, then I Drive the Club through Impact with the late straightening of the Right Arm.

The immediate straightening of the Right Arm from the Top is weak. You want the Right Arm to be fully straight at Follow Through (2 feet past the ball). If you begin the straightening from the Top and (best case scenario) your Right Arm becomes straight at Follow Through, you have spread the straightening of the Right Arm throughout the entire Downstroke. It equates to a large Release Interval. More often than not, when the straightening starts at Top, the Right Arm becomes fully straight prior to Impact. If anyone tells you to straighten the Right Arm from the Top, hand them their sign :iamwithst .

On the other hand, if you straighten the Right Arm as late as possible, you've compressed the straightening of the Right Arm into a small amount of time. This equates to a small Release Interval. If you have the need for speed, this is the stroke you want.

Are you talking intent in this post, or what the arm actually does?

feel vs. real
 

My quote was "If anyone tells you to straighten the Right Arm from the Top, hand them their sign :iamwithst ." Replacing the words "to straighten" with "to feel like straightening" should keep you from handing out the sign.

Ironically, I was working with a fellow professional, yesterday. He has Accumulator Lag and I was trying to get him to straighten his Right Arm as quickly as he could from the Top. He's left hand dominant, so he has always struggled with the use of his Right Arm.

One of the 'secrets' in getting someone to change quickly is to get the student to do an opposite. The opposite of keeping his Right Arm bent forever is to try to straighten it immediately.

But, he knows the goal, and he knows that we're trying to accelerate the learning process.

A question about your work with the left handed....
 

YodasLuke. This description evoke my interest. I`m playing from left but being a righthanded I have som trouble in feeling convenient with a inert left arm. I try instead to concentrate on my back shoulder getting it down but with an actice front arm. What are your, or your friends goals regarding his right side.

Hansli

Luke

Nice, drag then drive.

Never thought about too much right elbow bend at impact. Very interesting point . I guess not too many people suffer from this condiition compared to the opposite , not enough right arm extension left for the ball. Most often a right shoulder left behind at top problem.



Brownman.

4,1,2,3. Right shoulder down is start down, need to have some pivot axis first. Luke showed me the start down waggle to learn this in my lesson with him and Yoda last year.

Like you with your weight already target wards, sneaking your right shoulder (no 4 I think) close to the guys head and then jabbing (no 1) through the target (his head or aiming point in TGM). In golf the aiming point is not the green but down, down and out in the dirt, somewhere around low point.

Maximum force would have the right shoulder and the jab going through the ball. This is 4 barrel maybe however I think, I dunno. Probably not a place to start but a place to experiment with once you have it all working really well. I loved your post about the right shoulder in boxing, "either to it or right through it". A jab vs a punch. Both pack a blow.

Sorry if this is half baked Luke but this is where Im at anyways. Please advise.

OB

dominant arm
 

I would prefer to have everyone playing golf with their dominant arm on the back side of the club. I'd say the biggest problems that I've had with students had to do with the wrong arm being behind the shaft.

Although he's a Swinger, when he feels like he's trying to straighten the Right Arm from the Top, he's able to hit the Plane Line. When his right arm loses structure (Extensor Action) and sags, the club drops below the Plane.

He feels like he's Hitting with a huge pulley, but he knows better. It's just good Extensor Action in a Swing.

pro fix
 

He's been a pro for a long time. So, it's been 40 years since he was over-the-top with throwaway.

Because he's shorter and played with ill-fit clubs for years, he learned to do two things: 1. Drop the club under plane 2. Keep the clubface from closing. Both were to keep the ball from hooking.

Now, with irons that are 6 degrees flat (perfectly fit for him), his compensations for the old clubs make him hit blocks. When he feels like he's straightening the Right Arm from the Top, coming over-the-top, and snapping the clubface shut, he hits the ball dead straight. Go figure...

I'm also left hand dominant, since I started playing. And I also have trouble with the inert left arm. Right handed thoughts make me feel like I'm throwing it away.

I am in the same boat - I felt like I reached my power limit hitting lefthanded tennis backhands.
I learning to keep the right arm/hand shaft on the inclined plane board - keeping the left side dormant - (this is what I feel). Lots of right forearm With a big hinge/swivel feel into impact. Watching the Tomasello letter videos helped me. I have also tinkered with the driving right shoulder bent right arm - the move totally removes the fell of the left arm.

Ted makes a good point about customizing your approach for your student. I had a bad habit or letting my lower body fly out and it would be fore right.

The last two times I've seen Ted we've worked on the swing thought of driving my right arm past my left leg, and almost feeling no pivot at all.

I'm definitely pivoting, but it's a "feel vs real" approach.

I'm recommitting myself to hitting again as well, and hit balls for four hours the past two days, I'm mashing the irons very well, just got to keep slowing myself down some with the longer clubs, so I don't get sloppy.

Feel versus real
 

If you look at the pics starting at 10.2.6 #1 there is not a huge difference between impact and address.

First Game 09
 

Thanks guys for your input
First game in 09 after changing back to hitting,played at a resort course here in oz (called BARHAM) 4 over par and got R/up.
The most pleasing part is that on a lot of holes we had to avoid bunkers with drives,and my swing held firm under a lot of tests
Thanks TED for answer regarding shoulder to release,I will work on that more diligently.
Down with shoulder to release and then straighten R/arm through to straight

return to hitting 09
 

I too am activiely returning to smackville..last week i did 4 reps of 12 with 75 lbs on a pulldown machine so i could feel my triceps and what it feels like to activate and use them during a stroke... now i know what it feels like..Another key is a ssssssllllllllllooooooooooooowwwwww start down .. my previous attempts at hitting were convoluted by over accelleration:crybaby:

my question is with crossline delivery is a shut face essential( currently play blades no offset) or can you adjust low point for a square separation?

Core strength
 

Luke,I have no questions this time,as a result of your last question re-startdown I believe I have found something that is vital to my quest to become confident using Hitters pattern,and solid.

Imagine for a moment that you are standing beside a brick wall with your left side against the wall,widen your stance to driver width,Now ,imagine swinging a sledge hammer from just above shoulder height and hitting it at the bottom row of bricks,here,s the thing,in order to deliver that blow there is a natural weight transfer from R/foot to L/foot ,this in itself isnt what I found,I found a core or natural centering of my axis if you like,Im not sure how to explain it,but it has assisted me enormously in being able to deliver the hitting action as you have described ala shoulder then straightening of the R/forearm.

This is most likely a bizzare way to explain what my body is feeling ,but its the only way I can describe the FEELING. To day I practiced starting down with the R/shoulder and was more consistant than I have been for quite a while. (just 2 shanks out of 100 balls lol)

Righto gang,start your cannons

Is Tommy driving the right arm in the Deitrick videos, or is he throwing the hands? Tommy makes it look like the simplest way to hit a golf ball nicely.
I wish he was still around to elaborate on the video letter.

The right arn is working in a swing or hit. Is the left wrist loaded or the right hand? Wrist throw or arm throw?

Hey Ted,

whats the preffered elbow position in a hitting procedure? Pitch or punch?

Ive spoken to a real good TGM'er that hits, says punch is easier and dosent require the ultra quick hands that hitting from a pitch position requires. But he also says pitch is a beautiful thing if you can get it done.

thanks

elbow position
 

Pitch is extreme, and Push is extreme. Punch is anything in-between. It's tough to move the Release Point as close to the ball as a someone using a Snap Release/Pitch Elbow. But, the Hitter can move it to an earlier or later point to manipulate speed and trajectory. If you wait as long as possible, you better have some fast twitch muscle fibers.

One man's trash is another's treasure. You have no idea how valuable this rookie just found your post and in particular those first two sentences. What an eye opener for me!

Thanks YodasLuke,
Kevin

Hinging and Planes
 

I'm happy it helps. I've had a bruised forehead of my own from all of the ah-ha moments.

This applies the same to Hinge Action:
Horizontal Hinging and Vertical Hinging are extremes. Angled Hinging is anything in-between.

It also applies to Planes:
Horizontal Planes and Vertical Planes are the extremes. Angled Planes are everything in-between.

They say we should enjoy all great things in moderation. It's nice to know what moderation is in these concepts. Thanks again YodasLuke for the words of wisdom!

Kevin