10-2-D Swinging pattern
 

I'm curious if anyone has the 3rd edition, of what the patterns using 10-2-D are?

I've had a bit of a layoff from range time and have been experimenting indoors on different pattern options. Mainly, this stems from my grip choice, which despite a lot of experimentation on other patterns, most naturally falls to a 10-2-D, interlocking grip. This due to how my left hand naturally hangs at my side - a 'strong' position in my case.

Similar to what Doyle's grip appears to be.

From that grip, I've worked mainly on a swinging pattern, which also tends to fit my natural motion.

Given the requirements of a horizontal hinge, this leads to a 'cupped' left wrist at the top/end, from which I can release fully, for a draw, or basically 'feel' an angled hinge - but have a horizontal hinge of the clubface - for a straight shot.

I can really feel that the pivot, and its throw out action, is all that is needed to square up, and can put as much or as little force as I want into the shot with predictable accuracy.

I got back out and hit some shots today with this pattern and found it quite easy to repeat, and very accurate.

All of this is to say, that for those that have been trying to conform to the standard 10-2-B "back of the left hand faces the target" and still struggle with an open face at impact - check how your left hand hangs down at your side - and give 10-2-D a try.

Make a Left Hand Turn
 

12-2, Two Accumulator (1/2) Pivot Stroke with Drive Loading uses a 10-2-D.

I know it is unlikely, but are there any 3 accumulator using 1/2/4? That is what the pattern I was testing today felt like for a straight shot, the draw was near 4-barrel with the added #3 and cupped position, although hard to say based on feels alone.

Certainly the push-pull of a 1 vs 4 is subject to some gray areas when it comes to feel alone. I'll have to try to get it on video at some point.

Thanks Drewit - EdZ

I dont have the 3rd (I'm trying with no luck so far) but I'm surprised by this. Did Mr Kelley not differentiate hitting and swinging as we know it, in the earlier versions?

Regards
OB

Hitting and Swinging in the 1st Edition???
 

Good question about hitting and swinging in the earlier versions....did Homer seperate hitting and swinging from the 1st Edition??? My guess is yes (with section 1-F at the very least).

DG

swing patterns
 

perfect pattern
6-M-1, 4 barrel and hitting driving your right arm start of downswing all the way to impact.

Apply physics conservation of momentum.
Load and firing of the muscles.

A bullet proof golfing and easy to train someone to do as well

The crux of the pattern is letting your left hand grip position be as natural as possible, taking your grip at impact fix.

Check the flying wedges, and apply the pivot's power.

Agreed it is an easy pattern to teach - because the alignments are already set.

Too many people forget how important checking impact fix is, or don't understand where impact really is. You must have been reading my mind, as I just got back from the range working on this pattern.

Edz,
This the problem you can't go to the practice fairway and try and physically achieve this.
The body needs to be trained first how to create conservation of momentum and fire the body segments in the correct order. On top of this, you need to train your body how to load and fire your muscles which drives conservation of momentum.
6-M-1 has to be trained not physically applied. To achieve 6-M-1 you need to apply neuromechanics training.

Come on man . . . don't be a tease . . . talk to us.

Same brown stuff different day
 

malapropos buzz words designed to lure unsuspecting golfer into purchasing (most likey) worthless $10 videos and over-priced lessons. Nothing new here

PS COAM does not and will never apply... The golf swing is a gestalt where in NOTHING is conserved.

Having been to Bioengine and trained using his methods I can attest to there being much validity in the process. As far as value goes it's been worth every cent, especially compared to the usual Golf Digest tips you get from many golf pro's! Bio has a very methodical training approach that stems from a very accurate measuring system. You'll never know if you never go!

ya, but does he give "coupons" if I refer someone to him?

Coupons? Am guessing that's a humor attempt? But no, he doesn't. It's not some chain mail religious weird cult vibe, no political or financial gain as you climb a ladder, just a guy running a business with a very worthwhile product. I will however gladly recommend people to go despite the fact I have nothing to gain, except watching my mates play better golf.:)

Yes, it's my poor sense of humor. It's just that you have such a good sales pitch. This last response is an even better Sales Pitch. :laughing9

Hey, in America, "Mate" means "sexual partner or marriage partner".

Ha, re;mate, I better be careful of my lingo here then, though maybe I'm that attractive I have plural mates!
Sales pitch? Well I understand it comes across like that, I'm just into it and think it's worth at least listening to what he has to say. It's hard to be positive without it sounding like a sales pitch I guess.

It's great to be positive. It sounds like you're learning a lot and having fun. I wish the best for you.

No Mind,
We aren't talking about COAM Conservation of Angular Momentum.
We are talking about conservation of momentum.

Ok forumula M1*V1=-M2*V2
example
The above equation is one statement of the law of momentum conservation. In a collision, the momentum change of object 1 is equal to and opposite of the momentum change of object 2. That is, the momentum lost by object 1 is equal to the momentum gained by object 2. In most collisions between two objects, one object slows down and loses momentum while the other object speeds up and gains momentum. If object 1 loses 75 units of momentum, then object 2 gains 75 units of momentum. Yet, the total momentum of the two objects (object 1 plus object 2) is the same before the collision as it is after the collision. The total momentum of the system (the collection of two objects) is conserved.
6-M-1 with conseravtion of momentum applies and what drive it musclular loading.

Daryl,
I don't give out cupons, instead we give out free chocolate bars :laughing9 .

Not here to seek business, I'm only here to share knowledge on a game we are all pasionate about.:golf:

That's one of my weaknesses. :laughing9

I appreciate you efforts. It's very interesting and helpful. I see more and more of BioMechanics on the Web. You're much better than others I've read and I'm finding merit to much of what you say.

Daryl,
The problem with biomechanics is anyone can by a biomechanics software and start researching. Although there are two factors to consider is the quality of the software they use. You can't compare a 38,000 dollar system to a 250,000 dollars system the cheaper version isn't anywhere as accurate.
It's like polhemus systems is no where near as accurate as a Vicon system.

Also you should question the researchers background and what it is they researching in the golf swing and how they are researching.
There are a few companies who have no qualifications in biomechanics or human movement patterns also using cheap systems.

They work of buzz words and basic knowledge, also they add points of view and opinion and measure science, they don't to stick to the laws of motion and physics.
This makes it very difficult to educate consumers with the truth have these guys out there muddying the water and confusing people.

I hope one day in the PGA there are two type of coaches geometry and physics coaches, each understands the others field so they inter grade and work together for the better of the game.

Bio . . . still trying to get my mind around this . . . what components are intrumental in achieving "better" physics? Is it all pivot? Where do the arms and the "accumulators" come in? Do you teach how the arms and wrists are to work as well? Or do they just respond to the pivot? Also certainly not implying this about you but . . . . how many self-described experts in biomechanics understand the ball flight laws? If they didn't . .. .would it make any difference in what they taught you?

Bucket,
I agree these self proclaimed guys does everyone harm.

It's difficult to develop a grasp on biomechanics. There are so many factors to take into consideration.

Its the upper body slowing down and loading of the muscles in the upper body and arm relation which fires the arms.
When someone releases early is cause from the arms deceleration to early in the down swing.

club moves around the axis of the spine for some they do it naturally. Others they need assistance. They need geometry.
This is open to debate.
Some guys naturally get flat left wrist and other need assistance of some educated hands through pitching and chipping.

To be honest very debatable. Really if your have the right physics the geometry takes care of it's self in a perfect situation.

All golfers need to be taught good alignment first, setup,grip, stance and posture.
We heavily rely on coaches ensuring this is taken care of first.
What these self proclaimed biomechanist don't realise is the coach has taken care of this for you.

Another one they don't take into consideration is having the right equipment. This alone has huge effects on ball flight and movement patterns. You have to take equipment into consideration as well.

I always check with a coach if their client equipment is right.
Working with the coach we ensure their set up and grip etc is right. This won't effect movement patterns although will effect ball flight for sure.
Really we work off each other it's a team effort, we feed off each other to get the best results.

grip, posture, alignments don't effect movement patterns , this effects ball flight.
If you have good movement patterns and strong grip guess where the ball will go.
Although if you have good grip posture can line up to the target right, with good movement patterns
then you will hit the ball straight.

Poor movement patterns can effect geometry and ball flight. Although geometry won't effect your movement patterns. Geometry effects ball flight.

Most people who can't apply geometry has some form of movement patterns issues is why they can't apply geometry.

Honestly it's a team effort we feed off each other to get best results. Geometry and physics inter grade with each other. What's the point in having good physics if you can't grip the club properly or line up to the target. Ball won't go where you want it to go.

We work along side coaches not against them. We need each other.

I firmly believe you need geometry although what I'm saying we lack in golf is the understanding of physics and how to teach it.
And this is why I am here Bucket, to share my knowledge so we all develop a better understanding of physics and how we teach it.
I'm happy to share this with everyone so we can call learn to play this wonderful game better.

Thanks . . . . I think I'm understanding where you are coming from now. I agree with you that proper physics can to a large degree take care of the geometry. I guess my issue would be that biomechanics is applicable to more than just the pivot correct? How the arms move in space would also be encompassed by the biomechanics as well right? I'm a neophite for sure . . .

Question . . . what does club moves around the axis of the spine mean? I've seen this a few times in your posts. I'm not sure exactly what this means or looks like but am very interested to learn more. Is it easier to do this with more or less bend at the hips?

Thanks again!

B

Perhaps the discussion on bio mechanics can be moved to another thread?

A good discussion, but not about a 10-2-D swinging pattern per se.

Thanks