12-1-0 Delivery line
 

With Homers drive loading basic pattern will I be tracing the true Plane Line 10-5-A with the #3 pp (arc of approach), unlike the angle of approach with the 10-5-E Plane Line. Why is the angle of approach preferred over the arc of approach for the hitter. Also is the hip slide still parallel to the plane line for the hitter with the arc of approach.

Cheers!

Here are two of my favourite Yoda posts on the subject. Not that Im totally clear on it by any means.

ob



http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=123799856 7

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=123799964 2

Is video available which demonstrates these points?

Thanks O.B for fishing those posts up. From them I have picked up that yes I can trace the true geometric plane line but still not sure on the hip slide, should it be parallel if I trace the true geometric plane line or cross line?

Cheers!

IMO 3D animation is really needed to show this geometry as the camera or point of view needs to move around to see the topic at hand. Luke posted some very nice screen grabs on another post called something like "Delivery Lines...what are you lookin at".

Homer must have done a lot of perspective drawings to figure this all out in his garage fifty years ago. I imagine him running between his plane board and his drafting table. I see him surrounded by contraptions and drawings moving a mirror around his plane board so he can see what going on from dtl, in front, maybe even overhead.

Anybody got any pictures of the inside of Mr Kelley's garage from the old days? His methods of discovery could be our methods of understanding. He did recommend we climb inside a plane board, I believe.

ob

Im not sure if a hitter should trace the true geometric plane. I dunno. But I think I remember Luke saying he sometimes did. This is such a confusing subject! I know Yoda recommended the swinger stay away from the straight line , covering of the angle of approach.

In regard to your last question, as Yoda stated "Per 7-12, all motions---Pivot and Power Package---move parallel to the selected Delivery Line". So I take that to mean that you should slide your hips (with the hip held back, but just enough to shift your weight left , no more, dont exaggerate,) down the target line OR the angle of approach depending on your preferred Delivery Line of the clubhead (and right arm for hitters).

Can I add some questions?

-Why/how is the plane steeper when using the angle of approach?

-Why does the hitter use/cover the Angle of Approach anyways? Something to do with the right elbow or thrust I bet. Direction of thrust.

-Does the Aiming Point for the person using the Angle of Approach move outside the true geometric plane or target line then?

-Why is the Angle of Approach method "uncentered". What does this mean? Has the Hitter lost the left shoulder as his swings center?

OB

Basically it boils down to rotation, plane and pressure point location.

A swinger, with startup swivel, can stay 'on line' and on plane. You can't really stay on plane/on line unless you let the #3 pressure point rotate. A swinger is supporting 'under' the shaft.

A hitter doesn't (usually) allow #3 to rotate - no startup swivel - and is supporting the side of the shaft/arm/club - the entire primary lever.

In order to provide that support to the side of the shaft and still stay on plane, the hitter needs to push 'cross line' and thus usually a hitter uses angle of approach.

Thanks , EdZ

(No reference to Johnny Carson implied)

I did not know that.

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I had a feeling I wouldnt understand the answer. Let me do some thinking on it.

Cheers

ob

Edz, great reply, when you say the hitter needs to push cross line to stay on plane, is this with a closed plane line? If so does the hitter still push cross line with a square plane line?

Ally - with any plane line really. The push is relative to the plane, not the ball-target line.

So open/square/closed to the target line, a hitter is pushing more 'out' and swinger is pulling more 'along' relative to the straight plane line.

Now keep in mind that it is only pushing vs. pulling that separate hit vs. swing in the final analysis, so it is possible, although not advisable to mix components around, but it would be fighting the laws of physics!

Think of kicking a football/soccer ball.

The swinger, with an on-line delivery, is kicking more directly 'down the line' - more of a front/top of the foot kick. (but importantly, still from the inside)

The hitter, with an angle of approach, is kicking more from 'inside out' - more of a side of the foot kick.

Because we stand to the side of the ball, both swingers and hitters are always moving down, out, and forward. The hitter's lack of rotation of PP#3 means they have a touch more 'out' in order to support impact with the right forearm, just like the side on football kicker.

Ok fog not lifted yet, my fog.... in the drive loading basic pattern prescribed in 12-1-0 the plane line is 10-5-A, now in 2-J-3-B the explanation of the Angle of Approach after the first sentence "This just arbitrarily requires a 10-5-E Closed Plane Line.....". What do i do with the 10-5-A plane line? Still push cross line?

:confused1

Thanks.

Im thinking the Square -Square Plane Line of 10-5-A is needed to determine the Low Point and Impact Point through which the straight line Angle of Approach runs. Once the Angle of Approach is determined the Basic Plane Line is disregarded.

But I could be wrong.

Use the direction the right forearm is pointing at impact fix. Drive down the line that 'extends' the right forearm - down and out.

EdZ

So ....use the Square -Square Plane Line to determine the Angle of Approach and then move your machine around to align your right forearm to the Angle of Approach. Resulting in a Closed-Closed 10-5-E. Is this what you mean?

(Remembering to that the Impact Point moves around with ball placement and with it goes one point on the Angle of Approach)

OB

Right! How about this, I'm set up with 10-5-A, right forearm take away tracing the plane line to the TOP then drive the my #3pp in a straight line through the ball (inside aft?) and this will produce a cross line hit? Correct? This is assuming my ball position is correct for the club in hand so my aiming point is the ball. Also will I be on plane?

Thanks

no need to move your machine, the right forearm shows you the line to drive down - where the right forearm is pointing if it were to 'extend'.

Right arm thrust produces linear motion out to right field. One is still not excused form sustaining the line of compression. The angle of approach procedure accommodates linear motion out to right field while still sustaining the (straight) line of compression.

Just tracing any plane line would not accommodate linear motion. You must visually cover to accommodate linear motion. And visually covering ANY plane line produces a steeper angle.

But EdZ wouldnt this negate the Angle of Approach as a straight line drawn through the Impact Point and Low Point? Or are you saying you move your right elbow around to point down the Angle of Approach? Wouldnt this leave you at 10-5-A too? Maybe I miss understand.

Thanks
OB

Thanks SEC

Just found this great Yoda Post. Im thinking: not a cross line hit , still a visual equivalent. But with an apparent change in the clubhead orbit , maybe, I think, given the covering of the Angle of Approach.

This is where I get confused.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=123819726 4

Thanks for finding the post O.B!. I think my fog is lifted, so with my basic plane line being 10-5-A my Angle of Approach would be visual equivalent of a 10-5-E Plane Line.

My confusion before was I thought I would replace my 10-5-A with 10-5-E, but with my understanding of yodas post there, that 10-5-E would have it's own new Angle of Approach.

Does that sound right?

I believe so, with some reservations given the confusing nature of this topic.

The Angle of Approach is a visual equivalent, a straight line Delivery Line of the Clubhead along a line drawn between the Impact Point and Low Point. Not a true cross line draw producing 10-5-E stroke, just the clubheads Angled Approach to the ball (hence its name Angle of Approach).

The "angle" of the Angle of Approach changes as the Plane Line (Target Line) and Low Point Plane relationship changes ie as the ball moves further "back" of low point and hence more "in", thereby further separating the Plane Line and Low Point Plane. Im imagining a ball struck at Low Point to have zero angle to the Angle Of Approach. (Somebody please confirm this). The Thrust of the hands is still out though.

However the Clubheads orbit for this procedure is altered, different than the swinger Arc of Approach procedure. And here is where it gets very confusing for me.

-Would I be right in thinking the clubhead only appears to travel in a straight line? To actually travel in a straight line the left arm would have to lose it stretch, its radius or its tether at the left shoulder, no?

-For it to appear to travel in a straight line wouldnt the eyes have to be on the clubhead plane line?

And there in lies my confusion.

Here is a link to a great previous thread. But still the fog remains , for now.


http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=5240

I have the same fog. I was hitting pretty good wtih the driver when I just cover the plane line with the clubhead on the BS and hit down to the ball by the RFA. Once I trace the 10-5-E then mishit (hitting thin, hitting low draw with no distance..).

Covering the 10-5-A plane line result with the left arm separate with the left chest slightly, is this correct?

[quote=O.B.Left;62261]
-Would I be right in thinking the clubhead only appears to travel in a straight line?
QUOTE]

I believe so, see wording in 2-J-3 - "VISUALLY covers" - Traces and visually covers. Clubhead still moves in the very, very slightest of arcs (in line with being a very steep plane angle). As long as the plane is even the slightest bit inclined, the clubhead must move in an arc (again, no matter how slight) to stay on that plane.