Low Point
 

This was a fun project. Using the Computer I enlarged Ben Hogan to Full Scale. About 10 Frames from release through Impact were used to plot the Clubhead, Hands and Left Shoulder Path. The following information is a graphical representation of my findings.



Club: 6 Iron
Low Point Location: as Illustrated
Distance of Ball to Low Point: 6"
Divot depth: 1/4" at Low Point
Clubhead/Ground Contact: 5" behind Low Point
Stance Width (Distance between Ankle Bones): 19.25"

Interesting to note that in order to have a clean Pick-Off, the Ball had to be played 6" behind Low-Point. Clubshaft Angled about 10 degrees.

A club PRO quoted Mr. Hogan regarding the ball position..."The back of the ball shall be even with 3 inches forward of the lowest point in your arc..."

Hmm? That's something I haven't considered. So how did he really select Ball Location?

ahh, Technical detail. Lets do the Math. :laughing9

19.25"/2= 9-5/8
9-5/8 + 3" = 12-5/8
Move the ball forward 1/2 Ball = 3/4"

Total, 13-3/8" in front of his right ankle.
19-1/4" - 13-3/8 = 5-7/8" behind the Left Ankle.

Therefore, My diagram proves that he was 1/8" behind in this swing sequence where he normally plays the ball. :laughing9

Perhaps he meant 2-7/8" forward of the lowest point in your arc... Maybe he rounded-up to keep things simple.




It's interesting how well Hogan knew of shaft lean variations for each club. His 1 iron had 1 degree of bounce, 9 iron had 9 degrees of bounce and 6 iron had 6 degrees of bounce. So, at Ball Separation, the 1 iron would be ideal when the Shaft was basically Vertical to the Ground (ok, 1 degree forward for the "precision nuts" out there)

As he moved his right foot progressively backwards for each longer club, his ball position effectively became closer to low point. He would have hit the ground before he hit the Ball with his 1 iron unless he compensated. And, if he kept the Ball 6" behind Low-Point for each of his clubs, then the Trailing Edge of the Golfclub would have hit the ground before Ball Separation.

So, he most likely compensated by lifting Low-Point out of the ground; i.e. he became more upright. OR,

If KOC is correct, and the Club Pro heard Hogan correctly, and Hogan really meant what he said, then with a 1 iron and 24" wide Stance, the Ball would be 9" behind Low-Point.

Hmm? given the Shallower Angle of Attack of a 1 Iron, that's about where the Ball would need to be played for a clean Pick-off.

So, with Low-Point being approximately at the Left Shoulder, Hogan Played the Ball for all Clubs, just outside the Left Ear. :) So, If we had Impact Pictures of Hogan with different Length Clubs, then we should see that His shoulder Turn at Impact would be less turn for shorter clubs and more turn for longer clubs. Hmm?

I couldn't resist the wait. I found a video with Hogan and Driver and have his precise shoulder turn, that day, that swing.

The Lines indicate that Hogan had more Turn with his Driver than with his 6 iron.

Nice work there D!

Thank you O.B.

Here is the source from Mike Wright:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MKYiMtSTmI

Nice find KOC. So Hogan did not place the ball vis a vis the left foot per say, but low point. Interesting. Perhaps an insight he acquired after the publishing of the Five Lessons. He kept thinking about things, refining, right until the end I bet.

Three inches back from the low point in the arc for every shot would not take into account ball position adjustments for various Angles of Attack. Im thinking that while this is an interesting quote given the context of this fellows story about Hogan's precision, this statement is not, can not be, true as a general rule for Hogan. Sure as shootin, Hogan moved the ball around in his stance given the requirements of the shot at hand. Low pinch, high floater etc. Low point vs ball position. Machine adjustments.

I saw an interesting thing at this weeks Memorial Tourney. On Saturday Matt Bettencourt had hit his ball perilously close to the creek on 14. At the time was the leader and going along very, very nicely. The ball was on grass but just shy of the creek some 75 yards or so from the green. Problem was he couldnt get his left foot in front of the ball. Or should I say he couldnt get his left shoulder, low point in front of the ball without risking falling in. After some head scratching and fiddling around he tried to time an intentional downwards head bob to alter his low point. An interesting solution, but it didnt quite work this time around. The resulting skull left him in a greenside bunker and lead to the loss of a stroke.

:)

He said:

"The back of the ball shall be even with 3 inches forward of the lowest point in your arc..."

Meaning, with Both arms straight = 3" ahead of Center of your Head to the back of the ball. At about the Left Ear for every shot but change your stance width.

The above procedure is not the same distance back of low point for every club. The Exact distance from low point will change per club. Longer Clubs farther back, shorter clubs closer. It makes a lot of sense.

Daryl, don't take this the wrong way....but have you lost your job recently??? ;) You got alot of time on your hands!!!:laughing9

Really like what you been doing recently - hope that you still find time for work!! Big thanks for your effort!!:salut:

Re. Hogan's reported ball position comments...I have heard others use that statement to support the fact that Hogan was describing a forward ball position for driver...ie. hitting up on it... seems unlikely to be correct to say 3 inches forward of low point for driver??

Hogan thought Low Point was the Center of his Head.

I have tons of time. Its the Economy. Sales are down. My company is weathering it well though, I must admit. But unless we're really busy, I basically have NOTHING to do except sign checks and say hello to everyone and take people out to lunch. It's tough, I know. :laughing9 It will be like this for another year. I'm telling everyone to just relax and take it easy and enjoy life while they can. So I am too. So, I come into the office around 10:00 am and normally leave by 1:00 pm. Then, I wait for my wife to make dinner or we'll go out or something. I'm going to miss it.

Oh, and I stopped reading the papers and watching the news. It was so depressing.

Great series of posts
 

My driver was always difficult to hit. At Cuscowilla I began to see the light and with further help from Jeff Hull I am doing well with it. It was always easier to hit irons. My turn was adequate for irons but not the driver. This month it seemed to click. Need more turn with driver. I came out of the Doyle tree with the deep elbow and foward leaning club. Made driver harder to hit. This post brings it all together. Now I will think more about where to put low point in rough around green, with driver etc.. Gives me more tools to work with and a better understanding Thanks

Hmm? Cuscowilla. Great facility and Golf Course. It looked like a lot of fun. Aren't those Australians fun. TGM instruction was represented from two separate Continents. Unfortunately, I couldn't schedule it. You should talk to Yoda because I think he gives a guarantee. :laughing9 I could be wrong. Tell him that you wanted a lesson on all of the clubs, even the ones that are hard to hit. It's worth a try. See what he says. :laughing9


I think that Homer Looks at Low-Point as having a fixed relationship with the body, such as at the Left Shoulder and of course, I agree. On the other hand, he knew that we can control a clean pick off with any club using extensor action at impact fix to control divot depth. But he was also keenly aware of the divergence of the plane line and arch of approach. As the ball is moved back in the stance that divergence increases. So, opening and closing the plane line in relation to the stance line ,,etc, etc.

But I'm willing to experiment. Just to understand.

I too, use the Doyle pre-shot. Toe on the line, Step across the line, Balance, etc. I'd like to step 3" across just one time to hear him react.

Glad to read your posts that followed this one. For a second there, I thought you were defining low point as under the center of the head.

But to clarify, when the fella on the tape quoted Hogan as saying "The back of the ball shall be 3 inches forward of the lowest point in the arc....", Im thinking by "back of the ball" he meant the side of the ball you make contact with and by " 3 inches forward of ....." he means 3 inches before the low point. Otherwise the geometry seems way off to me.

Cheers

Hey man, I agree with what you're saying. But why didn't he just say "Play the Back of the Ball Three inches behind Low-Point".

In Five Lessons, he said:

He's yankin our chains. :laughing9 Does the Ball Position in post #1 look like 1/2" to the right of his left heel? Or 3" back? My Full Scale picture of him puts the ball 6 1/2" behind Low Point. The Picture in Post #1 has the Ball in-line with his Right Ear.

What does the following Picture tell ya? BH using a Driver.

I cant imagine Hogan of all people saying it like it aint , but he did. In regard to ball placement anyways. Knowingly or not.

Hey D can your Commodore 64 measure that divot in the second photo? According to my calculations it should be exactly 6" long. Somebody check my addition please.

And they're deep too!

Commodore 64 got a big upgrade. I'm now running a x286 with pcdos. I'm thinking about getting a color monitor but I can't find a video card for the thing.