Swing Help Please
 

Please excuse the enclosed picture stolen from another golf swing school of thought. It depicts my problem perfectly. When I look at the swing sequence of YODA, or any great player past or present, I see extension of the spine as in the picture on the left. :thumright When I look at video of my swing, I see the picture on the right. :thumbdown I am still looking for a "puke" smilie. :laughing9

For someone using pretty much the basic hitting pattern from the 6th edition, what are some "feels" that could help me get back to the proper mechanics of the picture on the left?

I'm ashamed to admit the fat guy in the striped shirt is me. :crybaby:

Thank you in advance for any help and ideas.

Kevin

What are you talking about man, thats a beautiful Hitters Pivot! Poetry in motion bud.

Try swinging two clubs held together standing completely on your left leg, with your right foot up on the toe and to the rear a bit.

As you swing, keep your eyes closed, imagine you are going to throw the clubs down the fairway, and step through with your right foot, as if you were going to walk after them. (which is a good way to start, go ahead and walk forward)

Let the weight of the two clubs pull you through, you'll feel you are really facing the target.

Kev, guys like you and I have some difficulty finding enough kinetic energy to get us completely through the swing.
I think the difference is that it might be a little easier for those guys that cast long shadows than it is for those of us that cast wide shadows.
Let's work on that tomorrow at the dome.

I was thinking about that drill with the weight on the left side and the right foot on its toe and way back behind the line too .......although Ive never heard of the two clubs thing before, nice.

KEv when you do this drill ask your left knee (or back) if there is a reason it doesnt want to take the load? Is there a twisting left knee problem or a physical element to this or is it just a habit, plane and simple? If the left knee doesnt want you to load it and pivot over it , you wont, or cant even. Its a self preservation mechanism.

You cant turn very freely without the weight centered over one leg or the other. Pivoting around the middle with the weight centered and both feet planted/ loaded is really awkward (like a spinning Top with two points to turn around) and so the brain will command the body to back out of the shot as if it is selecting the less injurious leg around which to pivot regardless of any consequences to golf score or low point management or whatever.

Homer designated Finish as one of the Three Stations (Address, Top, Finish). Golf is a motion that makes its way through the Stations with no consideration for Impact. Let the Motion make the shot etc. But to do so, Finish has be a balanced and comfortable destination or the body wont want to go there. Pose at Finish and see what it feels like. Move things around to make it more comfortable if you have to. Like the Knudson/Hogan left foot flare and the right foot drag. I love the drag thing, it gives us old inflexible farts a little more range of motion through the shot. And If you are dragging that right foot, the weight must be left! With it left, turning will be as easy as it is for spinning top. The center of gravity and the axis of rotation in line (and over the left side). VJ Trolio style.

Hopefully its just a habit and not an physical thing.

I can relate to your picture as I have a similar body type. I have to flair my front foot because of a severe footballknee. The flairing does restrict my rotation back somewhat but the tradeoff would be hanging back. I am able to stand on my front leg without pain but have to avoid any twisting of the knee.

Holy Smokes,

I have been offline for awhile, and I can't believe the wealth of help you guys have given me. Thank you to EVERYBODY!

Mr. Bond, Nice swing! I think you have nailed it. GMBTEMPE also shot me an email saying the same thing. I have both back and knee problems, and I think you guys have nailed it with the thought of flaring that left foot. I notice at set up, I am not flaring it much at all. I can't wait to try it tomorrow with JerryG.

Ed and O.B. I can't wait to try the drill along with O.B.s ideas as well.

You guys are the best!

Kevin

Mr. Kelley Would Be Proud
 

... of all my friends at LBG.

You were ALL correct, and your combined help has put me back on track.

I started with the drill given me by THE KING OF DRILLS, EdZ. One swing, acquired motion, shooting pain in my left knee, just as O.B. suggested, physical problem. :crybaby:

I flared my left foot as GMBTEMPE and Bond, James Bond 007 suggested and tried the drill again. WOW, no pain and I could pivot around my left leg. It's going to take a little time, and a little work, but now I have a plan.

Thanks very much everybody!

I owe you all an adult beverage, shaken, not stirred! :salut:

Kevin

Kevin,
I have discovered over the years that I have to vary the amount of flair (sometimes more) depending on the degree of tightness in the front knee. This has worked well for me and as the saying goes, "Sometimes you just have to do whatever you have to do".

Kevin, with the left foot flared open, try to feel your right leg stays straight on the downswing. Feel there is a clubhead attached to the outside of your right toe. Bury the clubhead in the ground leading edge first with a straight right leg. I got that tip twenty years ago and it still helps me.

Thanks Roger! :salut:

Kevin

Dude . . . my back and knee hurts just looking at that man . . . hit a bunch of punch shots just past follow thru but make sure that your BELLY IS UP UP UP and that your legs straighten out. Your hips have to have gone BACKWARD to get that look. Feel like you is gonna sling all that lent in your belly button up in the air and down your stance line. Feel like you are pulling the club up outta the ground with your pivot through the ball. If you stop past follow through then you can monitor your alignments . . . wedges . . . check . . . left knee bent? X . . . Lent out my navel? Check . . . hips up and forward? Check . . . W8 left? Check . . . Cliffhanger gone? X :happy3:

Fix this picture man . . . you are too good and too knowledgeable to be looking like that. You can do it!!! Get after it . . . bang some punch shots and get the club outta the ground FAST with your knees and belly.





You don't want to finish all bent over like the cat in the dress . . .

Hello Bucket, I agree! When I stopped the video and saw this, I almost puked. I have gotten a lot of good ideas, and yours are exactly what I will be working on. Hopefully the next pic of me will look like a golfer, I'm not sure I can think of anything that should resemble the pic I posted! :laughing9

Thanks Bucket, your help is appreciated! :salut:

Kevin

MIRROR MIRROR MIRROR . . . . look look look . . . film film film . . . you gotta grind on this via Chapter 3.

First Hogan Picture
 

Bucket, thanks for the Hogan pictures. You sure
find a lot of Hogan pictures that I have never seen.
One thing that impresses me, in the first picture,
is that the left wrist does not cup. Looks like a
perfect swivel. Donn

Ya agreed, Bucket those Hogan pictures are great. Not sure about the Double Anchor on the photographer though.

Bucket the leg extension thing. Is it a product of the Hip motion or is it a plane jane knee unbending? Like you where pushing down on the ground or something.

Check your yaller book on knee action . . . Mr. Kelley had it right . . . The knee action controls the hip slant and amount they can turn . . .and thus axis tilt to an extent and how far and how much the hips can go forward.

So compare the Hogan picture to our homie Kev's . . .















When the left knee straightens the hips will begin to turn . . . and allows the axis to tilt and hips and spin to extend . . . but you'll note that Hogan's knee straightens but it does it LATE . . . he goes forward forward forward down into the left knee and the pushes UP off the ground and the hips turn and raise and the axis tilts . . . We don't have Kev's entire sequence but it is clear that there are some things going on . . . head could be chasing? Hips could be backing up? Or both? But you can see by the left foot there's some spin out going on and the weight is more back. Look at where their butts are comparitively . . . also the axis tilts . . . somebody literally needs to kick Kev's ass :) . . . but then look at Eldrick too . . . . knee straightens but quicker than Hogan's . . . Eldrick is on tilt (in many ways) but his head seems to be backing up . . . . all this has implications on hinging and plane too . . .

LOL

Part of the problem is the old body, knees, back, and lack of flexibility. Combine that with trying to be "pretty."

I had switched to Standard Knee action in an attempt to look like Mr. Hogan. With my inflexible, short backswing, my legs didn't have time to bend at start down, and then push and straighten through follow through. My right knee was still bending through impact, and my hips were backing up exactly as you saw.Going back to Right anchor, I skip the straightening then bending procedures, and am able to get pushing from the ground properly through impact.

I also need to work on my hand path, which should get better with my improved rotation. Flaring the left foot more has made a huge difference in taking the stress off my left knee and allowing some turn. In the pic of the bad swing, it's tough to see from that angle, but I never get the shaft back on plane after impact. Chasing it BIG TIME.

Lots of issues, which you would expect from someone who really hasn't played in 3 years...

Hopefully I'll get some new pictures up next week... feeling like my old self again.

Perfect example of needing to find a motion to fit ourselves, not a model.

Make sense Bucket? :golfing_banana:

Thanks,
Kevin

Interesting stuff Bucket. Gonna try the bend and extend with the left knee and see what happens to the rest of the machine on video.

As an aside that last photo of Tiger and Hogan, which one looks likes it hurts? Hogan's right foot is de weighted , his body has rotated towards the hole, his hands are still in front of his body etc. Sort of like he's swinging the club and letting the club swing him too. Like Fred Astair dancing with a string mop. There is an efficiency and a harmony there.

Another suggestion to add to the previous ones, and one of my personal favorites as 'best simple drill ever'.

Hold your finish until the ball stops.

Witcha . . . that opening up of the left foot will let you go forward more too . . . Hogan had some pretty busted wheels too right? I'd say you could fix a lot of that off the course . . . mirror work type stuff . . . head in a door frame type stuff. You ain't gotta be perfect . . . just get lil' better and a lil' better and lil' more better over time. Rome wasn't built in a day and it takes a long time to cook pig shoulder to make it taste good.

Well . . . both had surgery on their leg . . . one from a wreck and the other from golf (unless it was from some extracurricular activity recently unearthed) . . . but I'd have to say Eldrick's knee wasn't done any favors by that swing. Who knows . . . I can't even spell gyrokologist.

Thanks Man, really appreciate your help and sharing of your expertise! :salut:

Kevin

Thanks EDZ. No way to hold it if I don't get into a much more balanced alignment. Hold it and Look, Look, Look...

I really appreciate your ideas! :salut:

Kevin

Jerry,

I've gone way past casting a wide shadow, now I just plain block the sun! :D

Kevin

If we stood side by side they could call us the Eclipse brothers.

Getting There
 

I got an email from a respected member of LBG with another idea. 9 to 3 drills using only my pivot on the downstroke, no hands.

Using this idea along with the other comments will make a huge difference. I hit as many balls as my back would allow yesterday, and really started to get the feel of using my pivot to get the club back up the plane after impact. What a great feeling, my compression had been improving, but this was a quantum leap.

Here is a picture of the same ugly swing I posted before, but this is at impact. Not terrible here, but it sure deteriorated fast! Immedately after this picture, my hands take over and flip, my body absolutely quits turning just as my anonymous friend pointed out.

Picture 1 (impact)


Picture 2 (FUGLY!)


Jerry is going to get me on film Monday at the dome, hopefully picture #2 will be very much improved. I'll still be fat though... :mad:

Thanks LEO!

Kevin

Pivot
 

Kevin,
I don't see much difference in your left foot position from the "fugly" picture. If my left foot was where your's is my body would quit as well.

Nope, that's still part of the "before" swing. I haven't taped myself yet using the help you all have given me. The flared left foot you suggested is a HUGE part of what I am working hard at! :thumleft:

Kevin

Jerry is going to get me on film Monday at the dome, hopefully picture #2 will be very much improved. I'll still be fat though...

Kev,
I'm glad I saw this so I bring the camera. I'll bring the fish-eye lens.
To be fair, the photos shown are from this summer shortly after our time with Yoda. In October and especially last week your turn was much better. I believe you will be pleasantly surprised by what you see. The flared left foot will probably be icing on the cake.
As long as we're talking about cake, let's be sure to stop at the bakery when we finish. Something healthful--like carrot cake...
g

Working on acquired motion.

Getting closer, not quite as ugly. :)

I'll keep fighting!

Man that looks good. Does the knee hurt when you do that? Awesome.

That aint too far from Total Motion really. Just a little bit longer on the backswing to get to right shoulder high and your there. But Alan Doyle could play from where you are there with that wedge no problem.

That looks much better!

DTL view?

LOL, that's really pretty close to MY total motion! :)

As long as I keep my foot flared, my knee doesn't hurt, and it helped tremendously. I need to keep working at Leo's suggestion and keep those hands quiter so my body keeps turning. If I can ever get THAT middle to keep going, the ball may never come down! :laughing9

Thanks O.B.
Kevin

Thanks Greg,

The only spot available at the dome didn't have enough room behind us for DTL. We'll get there earlier next week and get er done!

Kevin

Sorry for some reason I thought you were saying that was Acquired. I miss read your post. Glad the knee doesnt hurt.

Oh no O.B. You didn't miss anything. I was just laughing at myself! Not much difference between my acquired and total...:salut:

Kevin

Kevin,
Great job! Way better on the foot flair, glad to hear it can be done without pain.

Thanks again for your help and ideas! I won't forget the martini I owe you. :)

Kevin

Just my .02 here. Look at Kev's left arm, centered head and how even on this little wedge shot, his right shoulder is headed down the line. The more I look at it the better it appears.
Well done, Kev.