Contradicting information and hitting questions
 

I am confused about what type of hip action a Hitter should have.

Firstly, I have been told on this board to not slide the hips but rather to turn them. Basically use a standard hip turn.

Then I came across a post by Yoda today that seems to suggest otherwise. He seems to be saying there is a definite slide down the delivery line.

Is this a difference due to number of barrels used or is this a constant?

Secondly, should the shoulders be making more of a flatter or vertical move going backwards?

According to the book a slide is what is recommended.

Basically slide the hips going backwards and then slide them back going forwards. This is per 12-1-0 basic hitters pattern.

I am struggling with my shoulders and I believe it is due to conflicting styles of hip action in my swing.

I have a sliding hip take away but then more of a standard hip move in the down swing.

I believe this leads to the right shoulder being slightly above plane due to the shoulders moving a bit more vertically rather than horizontally in the back swing and due to a lack of definitive slide the shoulder never really gets back under plane coming back to the ball.

The shoulder simply remains slightly above plane the entire down swing which I believe to be a bad thing.



Am I on the right track here?

Should I be focusing more on a Hip Slide rather than the Standard Hip Turn?

Is the right shoulder being slightly above plane at top a bad thing or is it OK as long as I bring it back down to plane VIA hip slide to trigger the down swing?

The following Pattern is a Goal. :) I think that Line 14 was changed to "Slide" in the 7th Edition for Hitters and Swingers (lies, lies, lies). Maybe someone with a 7th Edition could look that up? I wouldn't do a Slide if you paid me.

You want to see the Best Hitter in the World? http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...nary-Head.html
Do what he does. I could swear it's a swing.

Mr Hip Action:

I thought you were Slide with a Delayed Turn, no? Would have sworn to it. Axis Tilt , Arc and then Straight Line.

The Center 2 Pics are a Slide. I don't do that. I don't do anything close to that. However, I am known to wear a skirt from time to time.

Look at that Bent Left Wrist. I can feel her shifting down to the Elbow Plane, Ugh..........

Stay With Standard Hip Turn
 

Homer's original definition of the Slide Hip Turn is depicted in the photos. Namely, "Slide with no appreciable Turn". In fact, this definition remains encapsulated in both the photos and the Chapter 11 summary of the 14th Component:

Turn -- Zero

Shift -- Free

In both directions.

So what gives?

Beginning with the 5th edition, Homer changed the definition to read:

"Slide with delayed Turn". [Italics mine.]

Until the 7th edition (published posthumously 23 years after Homer's death), all this lay under the radar. Then, the Slide Hip Turn Variation (10-14-B) became the listed Variation in both the Basic Stroke Patterns (12-1-0 and 12-2-0). During Homer's lifetime and through six editions, the Variation had always been the Standard Hip Turn (10-14-A), i.e., a free Turn with a Weight Shift in both directions.

Now, players referring to the Stroke Patterns and aspiring to Golfing Perfection are left with a horrific photographic impression of the listed Variation. An impression only confirmed when referenced against the summary characteristics of Chapter 11.

All of which is a shame.

Truly, a shame.

:crybaby:

Parallel (to the Line) Hip Motion (Weight Shift) With Delayed Turn
 

The Standard Hip Turn includes a Weight Shift, and this can be accomplished only with a Hip Slide.

I recommend focusing on the Weight Shifts -- to the Right Foot and then to the Left Foot -- and not on the Hip Motion. Why? Because focusing on sliding makes it way too easy to get into an exaggerated 'pushing out' of the Hips, first to the right and then to the left. Exactly what is being illustrated, by the way, in the Slide Hip Turn photos. :(

The 3rd edition offered this solution to the Hip Turn/Slide conundrum:

Sharp Turn.

Slide. [My note: Parallel to the Square Plane Line and with the Hips still Turned.]

Swing!

Take Hogan's advice on the Downstroke Hip Turn in Five Lessons: "There must be enough lateral motion to move the weight to the left foot."

The Hitter using as the Delivery Line the Baseline of the Inclined Plane (the true Geometric Plane Line per 2-J-3) senses the Hip Motion as parallel to this Square Plane Line. However, Hitters using the Angle of Approach procedure (beyond -- way beyond -- the scope of this post) would sense the Hip Motion as parallel to that "Inside-Out" Line.

:golfcart2:

To me anyway, the "Shiftless" Hip Turn is like Turning in a Barrel and is good for short shots for a swinger. The "Slide" may be good for a Hitter for short Shots.

The Standard Hip Turn with a Weight Shift has, to me anyway, always included a Slide. The Slide creates the Secondary Axis Tilt. Slide to create only enough Tilt.

Slide, then Turn.

Hey, we can "Jack" this thread. :laughing9

Yoda , if you dont mind.

"Sharp Turn, Slide, Swing". Thats what I feel, I think. But some would say its "Sharp Turn, Slide , Turn the Hips Hard". And so my question is ............given the quote from the 3rd above, does the Hip Slide represent the Hips portion of the 6-M-1 Downswing Sequence? Or does it require a "ground up" sequential turning of the Hips?

Me , I feel like the Hips and Shoulders sort of go together, but ..........you know that already. Like a hockey slap shot as you diagnosed.

Zones One and Two -- Stimulus-Response Interaction
 

The Body (Zone 1 / Pivot) is responsive to the demands of the Arms (Zone 2 / Power) and the On-Plane Alignments of the Hands (Zone 3 / Direction).

Specifically to your comment, the Hips "turn hard" (in the Downstroke) to accommodate the demand of the fast-swinging Arms.

Not as an end in itself.

:golfcart2:

Ok so this is starting to make sense to me then.

Would it be fair to say that between the weight shift to the left, the hips turning, and the shoulder drive movements create enough hip slide so that you do not need to worry about a conscious slide?

Yesterday I had my best ball striking round in quite some time and was literally playing golf in straight lines around the course.

I felt absolutely no hip slide at all with my motion. From top my only swing thought was slow and steady right arm drive and with the same tempo for a hip turn.

My finish was always wonderfully balanced which means I had to be getting onto my left side, but not consciously doing so.

Also do you guys recommend that I pick up the 6th edition?

I have the 7th and that hip stuff was giving me fits.

:naughty:

Learn to trace the Plane Line with the #3 PP and a Right Forearm Flying Wedge. Do 50 Right Forearm Wedge Strokes per day (no Left Arm). Tie the Wrist and Forearm in a cast if you must or bend a spoon and wrap it in tape so that your right wrist stays bent.

It will take awhile to learn. A few weeks, a month, I can't put a time on it. Once you learn this, you won't have Pivot questions anymore.

I know that that's a crappy argument. But until that Right Forearm Flying Wedge can move from a cocked/bent right elbow to a straight right elbow.....

Basic Motion, chip shots, Right Arm Only, intact Right Arm Flying Wedge, Tracing the Plane Line, from bent Elbow to Straight Elbow. The Right Hand doesn't pass the navel even when the right arm is straight.

Once you can do that, then you can pour on the pivot as hard as you can because the Pivot affects the speed of the right arm straightening.

I'm going to get a lot of criticism for what I just said.

Thank you Lynn.