Hinge Action
 

Is the understanding of hinge action mandatory for the Golfing Machine?

Understanding hinge action and how it relates to ball compression, spin, trajectory was a huge eye opener to me when I started to read the yellow book.

It literally changed the way I wanted to strike the ball. It set my impact thinking straight in a way that made long lasting improvements.

When the touch goes away and the stroke falls apart you start thinking about what you're doing and what you're supposed to do. If your stroke is accompanied by faulty beliefs the thinking can make things worse. If you really understand impact you can manufacture shots that works.

Hinge action is certainly one of the topics that differentiates TGM from the pack. And vital if you want to become a shot maker who knows what he's doing.

My two cents.

Thanks but my mind just can't see what hinge action does. I think I have read everything I could but I still don't understand it. Thats why I was wondering how important it is. I quess I need someone right in front of me to show me.

hinge action class
 

Please watch the below three video clips-
The first is critical for understanding what TGM is.
Clip two and three are hinge action presented by Yoda – He stands before you in these clips and teaches hinge action with precision. Because they are video clips he will continue to stand before you until you get it.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...oel-Class.html

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...on-part-1.html

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...on-part-2.html

I pasted the clips from the gallery/free videos.

HB

I don't get it either. The upper left arm (not the wrist) rolls naturally from the ball and socket joint at the left shoulder as it swings on an inclined plane, thus producing clubface roll on the plane. Rotating the torso, with no independent left arm swing, to swing the club on the plane, produces the same clubface roll effect. I'm not even sure that it is anatomically possible to manipulate the left shoulder joint to prevent that roll in a swing of any force, while keeping the shaft on the plane. But why would you want to anyway?

One of the easiest to understand, at least for me, can be found on The Golf Channel.
Watch a demo by Martin Hall. He uses hinges from Home Depot, affixed to his wrists. Almost too easy to apply.

Hinge action is in the shoulders
 

It is my understanding that hinge action is at the left shoulder.

I could be wrong.

The Bear

The first step to understanding hinge action is to get the general 'picture' of what it is, then you can relate that to the body/arms/hands.

For starters - horizontal hinge

Go get a basketball/beach ball.

Put it in front of an open door, and then open/close the door to see how the door is 'open' as it contacts the ball, and 'square' (as it leaves). In this example, when the door is closed = separation.

In a golf motion, the door would keep moving through (if you have a door that does this, all the better)


That is the basic of a horizontal hinge.

The hard part for most people is relating that to the body, because we are talking about 'horizontal' to the ground, but are on the angled plane.

Hold your arm straight out at shoulder high and imagine it is the 'door'. That is basically the same as the door on this horizontal plane.

Notice, your left wrist STAYED VERTICAL TO THE GROUND

That is the key to understanding horizontal hinge on the inclined plane of a golf swing.

the hinge of the door is vertical to the ground, but your left wrist is swinging on an inclined plane, so to make it STAY vertical to the ground on the inclined plane, it must turn, and roll - again - relative to the ground the left wrist is still always vertical. the hinge is in the left shoulder

An angled hinge is perhaps easier to visualize, simply keeping the left wrist vertical to the inclined plane (image a roof). For that, there is no feel of turn or roll.

A vertical hinge - imagine a dog door - the hinge is in the left shoulder, so the left wrist must be manipulated to stay in that position back and through.

O.K., so if you hold your left arm out, inclined, and hold your left hand/wrist vertical, and swing your arm back, and then swing back through the impact zone, keeping the arm on the inclined plane, then if the hand/wrist stays square/vertical to the inclined plane, then this is angled hinging? Obviously, the hand represents the clubface. And to fairly evaluate the hinge action of the arm itself, then the wrist should not rotate (pronate/supinate) independently. Here's my "issue". The left arm doesn't naturally swing on an inclined plane without rolling. So to produce angled hinging with no wrist rotation, the left arm would have to be consciously rolled in reverse to offset the natural roll. Or adding the wrist, the wrist would have to be reverse-rolled. Why would we even recognize that as an option since it is so "un-natural"?

Now you can easily produce swing of the shaft on an inclined plane with no clubface roll using only the wrist... ideally with a strong grip. But as soon as arm swing and body rotation is added, there "should" be clubface rotation on the plane.

My understanding of clubface roll on the plane is gleaned primarily from "Search For The Perfect Swing", which explains that about 60* of clubface rotation in the backswing occurs naturally from the arm swing and shoulder turn. 30* of independent wrist roll added will rotate the clubface to the "traditional" parallel to the plane position at the top. But that can be partially or totally eliminated at the option of the player. Either way, the clubface will need to rotate on the plane to return to vertical at impact, and as a result, will continue to rotate on the plane after impact. With less wrist roll, the rate of clubface roll is slowed. These scenarios, I assume, are horizontal hinging.

Now I really do want to fully understand TGM hinge action and how I can add to my understanding of the "normal" possibilities. What am I missing? And how in the world do you produce vertical hinging?

Hey Max welcome to LBG

Yes I can see your point. But what happens when you swing the right arm? Id suggest its different, that it tends to not roll, "naturally". And so you have different hinge actions associated "naturally" with the left and right side dominated actions.

Why would you do this? It is a natural product of Hitting which can be compensated for at address by slightly closing the face to offset the slip and lost compression. Also Angled Hinging approaches Horizontal Hinging in characteristics as the plane angle approaches Horizontal. And vice versa as it approaches a truly vertical plane.

The 60/30 degree relationship you referenced is very limiting. While in the mechanical model of 1-L the hinge is mounted at the left shoulder you could recreate the three (basic) hinge actions entirely with just the hands or just the arms or just the body. (with some limitations, dual horizontal for instance) So theres a number of possible combinations available. Not all ideal mind you but ........Hinge Actions can be accomplished by any of the "Three Zones". If you're extremely stiff for instance and have a dead pivot you'll get it done with just the arms and hands .......the old man swing.

Another thing to consider is that given any angle at the left hand and club (#3 accumulator, gripping it under the heal pad) the roll you mention will add to the clubheads velocity. Reverse roll will do the opposite and angled neither add nor subtract. So not only is the balls behaviour affected by the variation in layback vs closing but its also affected by the associated changes in clubhead speed inherent in the different hinge actions.

From impact, does the body(center of the chest) pivot with the left arm to follow through?

Thanks for the reply, O.B. I see your point about the right arm. I can see how the right arm could thrust without roll. Now, are the 3 hinge actions in reference to the impact interval only? I mean, eventually the clubface has to roll on the plane in a full-power stroke, no?

Not sure I follow but I believe the answer lies in the difference between Hinge Action and Swivel. Theres a lot of posts on these terms around here if you want to use the search function. But Ill take a stab at it.

Instead of thinking about the clubface rolling onto the plane if you think about the left hand (the one we use for Hinge Action control) it would relate better between the two concepts and be more true to Homers thoughts as well.

Hinge Action is a holding of the left hand perpendicular to one of the three Basic Planes (the ground or the horizontal basic plane, a wall or the vertical basic plane or any inclined plane in between those two extremes, an angled basic plane) . So assume you're employing Horizontal on the way back .....you keep your left hand perpendicular to the ground ........which is fine and dandy to a point, but to get from there over to the inclined plane you have to depart from this aligned rolling , you gotta get your left palm pointing down to the ground a bit right? Im thinking that's the Swivel onto the plane. Its a rolling that is not aligned to a basic plane that "swivels" the left hand onto the inclined plane......3 times during the swing. It the bridge between the Inclined Plane and Hinge Action.

So yes the Hinge Action is employed throughout the impact interval. Swivel gets the hand onto the inclined plane. There's different feels associated with different Hinge Actions ........Homer's idea was to learn the feels associated with these different alignments and then use feel to play the game. Practice the mechanics, play by feel. The translation of mechanics to feel. etc.

Never thought of it in those terms before but ......maybe thats an easy way to describe things . Somebody once told me it takes five years to understand hinge action, Im only about three years in so.....

Depends on the pattern and the accumulators used, but yes it is far more consistent a pattern IMO if the hands and chest move through impact together as 'result'. That is the only possible way to justify saying hinge action is somewhere other than zone 3 (which is another topic all together, and one not appropriate in this thread)

The next step in understanding hinge action is to understand how the right arm's motion effects the rate of clubface closing.

Until you can get that, it is easy to confuse hinge action and swivel.

For a swinger, using standard wrist action, the release swivel puts the face back to perpendicular to the plane, but the rate of closing, the rhythm, is determined by the straighting right arm (no matter if that is a motion caused by the pivot's throw out, or an action caused by the right tricepts thrust)

Can hinge action be summed like so...
Horizontal= clubface closes to the inclined plane
Angled= clubface stays perpendicular to the inclined
Vertical=clubface opens on the inclined plane
?

A lot of people have reduced it to this perhaps but it lacks precision. Which can be the difference between a par save and a bogey. So Id say the answer is no. You're close but its worth the effort to fully understand the alignments.

Get a ping pong paddle and stick it in your left hand and try moving it back and forth while keeping it (the paddle) perpendicular to one of the three basic planes. You'll notice also that your left hand grip can be a little turned on the paddle's handle like it would for a common golf grip. Thats a good thing, thats ok just watch the paddle, keep it as the de facto left hand. Watch the paddle , then make the same motion without the paddle and watch the left hand (still turned its the new flat or perpendicular).

You've got a good guy here in EdZ......he's got some insight on this business. You could search this using his name or Yoda's. You could buy the Alignment Golf c.d., you could check out the free videos which cover this. There are some animations somewhere....

Dont give up till you can reproduce the three hinge actions......with little chips or pitches (Basic or Acquired Motion) and then from the three ball positions (Forward, Back and Middle) and the different plane lines..... and the different face angles (open , square , closed). By this point you're going to feel Phil Mickelson good with your short shots and your long game'll seem way easier. But even then there's being able to do it Hitting or Swinging......and then the different minor basic strokes within each .....the Pull, the Paw, the Push , the Bat etc ..........this is the road to mastering the game, to having a masters level of execution and precision.

It all about precision , precision alignments reproduced by the associated feel.

You have a PM waiting for you.

I have trouble just delivering the club to a constant impact alignment, should I even entertain the need to use different hinges?

gmbtempe my whole thing with Hinging being irrelevant is that I cant imagine not using it.......so Id say you should do some work on it when chipping and pitching.

When Im watching the guys on tv I see different Hinge Actions .......and the vast majority of these guys dont know about the three basic planes. Maybe this is why some guys struggle with certain shots? Arnie didnt have good flop shot say. I dunno. Although, and Im going from memory here Ill have to take another look at it, didnt Arnies old book sort of describe Hinging for bump and run shots.. what we'd call Horizontal Hinging? Hmmmm or was it Jacks book? I think it was one of Arnies. Got to dig those things out its been years since I looked at them.

Homer didnt invent Hinging ......he only defined its underlying geometry.

I guess you responded this way to prevent an impression that TGM is a particular way of moving the club through impact and I agree that it isn't.

But what Homer did with his hinge analysis is also a massive knowledge invention that deserves to be reckognised. He took a huge leap forward knowledge wise.

Homer created a language and a system that enables us to differentiate and analyse various hinge actions and a myriad of other important details.

If he had tied his analysis to to various methods for learning different hinge actions it might even have been patentable method.

Agreed. To clarify, I said it that way because I imagine Hinge Action has been employed for as long as golf has been played. If unknowingly. Homer's contribution was to decode it geometrically. Define it precisely. Bring it out of the darkness.

Bernt do you think a feathery with its different c.o.r (whatever that is) would make for a more profound ball response to Hinge Action?

Im going to look through my old golf books to try find something similar to hinging. We need Drew or somebody familiar with the with the books from the days of wooden shafts to help maybe.

Anybody got any leads to hinge action being mentioned in other golf instruction books. Id swear there's something in one of Arnie or Jack's books.

a feathery? Is that an old type of golf ball? Filled with feathers?

If I were to guess, I would guess that hinge action makes the biggest difference on balls with a high rebound factor (whatever that might be :toothy1: I guess you can call it Coefficient of Restitution)

But say you have two balls: One filled with sand, the other a Pinnacle made for max distance. You drop both to the floor. The floor will provide a close to perfect compression situation. The sand ball will just adopt the speed of the floor which is zero. Drop and stop. The Pinnacle will bounce back almost to the same height as you dropped it from. If the Pinnacle ball for some reason were rotated while it were in contact with the floor, so the line of compression were shifting during the impact interval, the ball would bounce less. But the ball with sand would behave the same.

Soap the floor .... spin the ball before you let it drop .... this may actually be testable. You might need to spin it really fast though.

There may be other factors of course that complicate things.

Ok that didnt take long, cant find my old Arnie books but here is Jack from "Golf My Way", 1974.

"The infinite variety of course and weather conditions encountered by the tournament golfer demands that he learn to "finesse" the ball, especially around the greens. Thus Ive gradually developed quite a variety of chipping techniques , two of them illustrated here. By swinging the clubface through the ball from open to closed (top drawing), I'm able to produce a low-flying, far-running kind of shot --a "hot" ball I call it. Reversing the process, I produce a higher-flying, softer landing chip shot--I think o fit as a "dead" ball--by swining the clubface through the ball from closed to open. Neither technique is beyond the reasonably skillful golfer who'll give some time to practicing these finesse shots."

He's pretty close, the top drawing looks like he'll it pull it left with that closed face at impact. The bottom one looks like a tiny push to the right. It lacks Homer's precision with the three associated planes, he doesnt discuss Angled at all. Good stuff though, really good stuff.

Id be interested in other examples from non tgm sources especially pre tgm. Maybe I should make this a new thread.


http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=128726701 7

Thank you Doctor.

Does the left arm separate from the left pic muscle, creating a gap between the left arm and the body during hinge action?

The "associated" planes are for understanding WHY the clubface moves as it does for each of the 3 hinge actions. But ALL of the action of the clubface takes place on ONE plane, the inclined plane. Thus, the following descriptions are not incorrect: horizontal=closing, angled=square, and vertical=opening. Cool?

You are confusing the feels with the reals so to speak.

horizontal hinge action 'feels' like a full roll of the clubface, and yes, it is a 'closing only' motion - relative to the left shoulder hinge, just like a door

angled hinge action 'feels' like a no roll, or as you put it 'square', but the clubface is actually closing AND laying back

vertical hinge 'feels' like a reverse roll, or as you put it 'opening', but the clubface is actually ONLY laying back


the important point to keep in mind - the hinge is in the left shoulder

With fear and trepidation, I venture to ask a question about hinge action. Forgive me Daryl if this is the wrong thread to ask this question!

Can some one describe the relationship of the right and left arm flying wedges to hinging? Is hinging another way to describe the movement of the arms from impact to end point (both arms straight)?

I ask this question because, given the discussion in this thread, it seems to me that hinging is much complicated than simply the closing or the laying off of the clubhead through impact. I have heard many people talk about closing the club face, e.g., by rolling the forearms or rolling the wrists, but those "methods" don't seem to be getting at hinging, or at least, not at a full description of what is going on with hinging mechanically.

Hey Max

Again your "close but not quite".

Couple of things:

-its the clubshaft or more specifically the Sweespot Plane the travels the Inclined Plane , not the clubface.

-per EdZ both Horizontal and Angled have the clubface closing......the question is how much and how does the golfer monitor that rate of closing so he can reproduce it consistently? Answer: (Left Hand) Alignment to one of the Basic Planes. There is precision to be had there. Its not just any old amount of roll for Horizontal. You can over do it or undo it.

There's a lot of guys who get to where you at, what you're proposing and then stop the quest for more precise knowledge......they can play the shots but they have no way of checking their alignments. Some days it works , some days it doesnt. They lack precision and are subject to the vagaries of feel without alignments.

I don't understand why it can not be the clubface as well, since the sweetspot always is in the middle of the clubface. What am I missing?

Setting aside the "feels", I'm just trying to understand the definitions. I believe the confusion is that I'm using the terms "square" and "opening" in relation to the inclined plane. But it seems that the alignment of the clubface for angled and vertical hinging is termed relative to the target line or baseline. Yes?
So angled hinging sees the clubface close to the plane line, but stay sqaure to the inclined plane, Yes?

And shouldn't "closing only" demonstrate with no swing of the shaft? As soon as the clubhead passes low point, it IS "laying back", no?

Daryl's at a wedding in Seattle so you can relax till monday.......

Wiki answer follows:

The Flying Wedges are at Right Angles to each other. The LAFW aligned to plane of the left wrist cock , a purely perpendicular or vertical to the ground plane of left hand motion. The RFFW to the plane of the right hand bend a pure horizontal plane of right hand motion. (Gotta read 6-B-3-0-1 and 4-B-0 Perpendicular vs 4-A-0 Bent). Another way of thinking about this ......somewhat simplified ......imagine a thin line of tape running up the top of the shaft and another running up the aft of the shaft. These strips of tape representing the two planes of the Flying Wedges and where they intersect with the shaft. They are 90 degrees to each other when viewing the butt end of the shaft in section. K?

So lets say we're a Horizontal Hinger and we're in our downswing, we've slid the left hand, palm down to the inclined plane to our Release Point. The left hand starts to come off the inclined plane (release swivel) it swivels over to an aligned to the Horizontal Basic Plane position. All the while as goes the left hand so goes the LAFW and also the RFFW. So the wedges are rotating too , all the while maintaining their at right angles to each other relationship. Then we Hinge Through impact, the left hand remaining perpendicular to the Horizontal Basic Plane (the ground) Then after Both Arms straight we swivel the left hand back onto the Inclined Plane. The wedges rolling along with it and all the while maintaining their own separate alignments and relationship to each other.

Thats my take on things, Id welcome any corrections to this, treat it as a Wiki answer.....whoever feels so inclined please fix it.

Does the left arm separate from the left pic muscle, creating a gap between the left arm and the body during hinge action?

I think that it's an excellent question.

The Left Arm Wedge is going to be Hinged through the Impact Interval.

The Hinge will be located at the Left Shoulder.

The Alignment of the Paddlewheel Motion of the Right Forearm Wedge will determine the Alignment of the Hinge (i.e. Angled, Horizontal).

If the Right Forearm/Hand Paddlewheels about an axis that's perpendicular to the Horizontal Plane, then the Hinge Pin will be Perpendicular to the Horizontal Plane. Horizontal Hinging.

If the Right Forearm/Hand Paddlewheels about an axis that's perpendicular to the Angled Plane, then the Hinge Pin will be Perpendicular to the Angled Plane. Angled Hinging.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You have TWO CHOICES: Hinge Through Impact or Swivel Through Impact.

If you Force the Left Wrist to Roll Through the Impact Interval, by Rolling it with the Left Arm or Wrist or Forearm Muscles, then the Right Hand will also Roll. That is Swiveling. Both Hands are rotating Counterclockwise. You are Rolling the Center of Gravity of the Clubhead and Clubface Alignment will be erratic. The Clubface will Close and Hood.

When you use the Paddlewheel Action of the Right Forearm and Hand to Roll the Left Wrist Through the Impact Interval, you are Hinging. The Left Hand Rotates Counterclockwise but the Right Hand does not. You are Rotating the Clubface in Alignment of the Hinge. The Clubface will Close Only.


One last point if I may:

When Pressure is applied to the #3 Pressure Point, then the Right Forearm will perform the Rotational Requirements of the pre-selected Hinge Action. Without #3 Pressure Point Pressure, the Right Forearm Flying Wedge cannot exert its influence on the Left Arm Wedge. But, although the Rotational Motion may exist and the Left Arm will be influenced by that motion, it won't have the "Hard Snap Roll" of Horizontal Hinging through and after impact. Its a softer sort of Roll and it will be influenced by Impact Deceleration.

Bravo!

That was a mind blowing explanation of hinge action Daryl.

:salut: :salut: :salut:

If Innercityteacher doesn't learn one or two things TGM related from that post I'm afraid you will have to lower your goals.

Hmmmm .........yes the sweetspot (the opposite end of the sweetspot plane from the #3pp) travels the inclined plane but the face angle's relationship to the Inclined Plane varies for all but the impact interval of Angled Hinging. For instance, the properly aligned clubface is not necessarily on or parallel to the inclined plane at top (or parallel to the left arm for that matter). The left hand lays on the plane at top but not the face, necessarily.

Part of the reason you are confused is that you are focused on hinge being on the plane, and not the left shoulder.

This is a central point of confusion for many when learning about hinge motion.

the hinge is in the left shoulder

If you have the book, look at 1-L

Now picture that as your left shoulder and arm

so while you are correct that with an angled hinge, the clubface does stay perpendicular, or vertical, to the angled plane, or in your words 'square', that isn't the whole picture and is why you are confused about the horizontal example


forget plane/target lines for a moment, and just imagine the 3 basic planes - horizontal (a door), angled (a roof) and vertical (a dog door)


imagine there is a door with the hinge at your left shoulder

the clubface stays 'in' the door - which is easy to see if you lift the club up to shoulder high, but as soon as you lower it down, the confusion sets it

you are still keeping the clubface 'in' the door, but on the tilted plane, and to do that, you have to let the left wrist turn going back, and roll going through

by staying 'in' the door, the clubface is appearing to open and close to the target, but it is staying 'square' - 'in' the door that is mounted at the left shoulder

next, you'll see how the right arm is what 'slams' the door, by straightening - and that motion is either an active straight line push (hitter), or the throw out (swinger) of the club caused by the pivot

Follow-through is "Both Arms Straight". If Impact occurs while the Right Arm is Bent but straightening, then how could the Left Arm move precisely with the Chest?

Remember that at Follow-through, both Arms are straight, which locates the Hands in the center of the chest. The Left Arm won't become 90 degrees to the Chest until about the Finish Swivel. The Left Elbow needs to bend to allow the Hands to pass "Center of the Chest" Both Arms Straight.

Yes, I do "get it" now, Ed. Thanks.