How can it possibly move on anything but the TSP? Isn't the TSP the angle from the tip of the rear shoulder at the end of the backstroke, no matter where it stops, to the baseline of the plane?
Tong, it's a nice quote, but doesn't really clear up (for me, it's all about me remember ) whether or not the rear shoulder should remain on its downstroke plane angle from the End, to the end of the Follow Through, never leaving it. Is there an official, written in concrete, answer on that?
There was a pic posted by Mathew in the Delivery Path and Flying Wedges thread showing Yoda "achieving a perfect Turned Shoulder Plane with Zero Shift". Yoda's shoulder was above the TSP at impact, and I asked if that was indeed perfect execution, because if it was I could update my understanding. Nobody answered, and I didn't push it. Maybe I should have
I think it's obvious that the right shoulder is ideally just on-plane during the start-down. If it's thrusting - then ideally during that thrust period it would be on plane- but not necessary as you could have an offsetting thrust to balance it out if it was thrusting offplane- see 2-N-1 for that discussion. Of course, there are certain limited conditions/strokes where the right shoulder could be on-plane throughout the downstroke - but we're talking about the norm i.e. you'll have a tough time finding a professional who has their right shoulder on plane at impact- if not impossible. For those that think the right shoulder should/could be on plane throughout the downstroke then you'll need to clearly prove your point.
I have never understood how someone could have the shaft, right shoulder and right arm all on the Turned Shoulder Plane at imapct without a straight right arm. However, in a recent thread someone said that nowhere in the book does it say that the shoulder should be on the TSP at impact, so I guess that answers that.
Agreed...and that recent thread answer was by me...
Originally Posted by tongzilla
Homer: "After a 13-B or 12-C Backstroke Shoulder Turn, the Right Shoulder moves toward Impact precisely on the preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane, estblishing and supporting the Power Package Delivery alignments."
Not again...Moving precisely towards impact (which I advocate strongly), does not mean at imp[act the same condition stands....
you'll have a tough time finding a professional who has their right shoulder on plane at impact- if not impossible.
Agree! Just another one of those things where reality does not match theory.
Like you said earlier, you can and should have Right Shoulder On Plane at Start Down, but it's not really practical at Impact. Interestingly, at Follow Through, you'll find quite a lot of players with their Right Shoulder back On Plane.
OK good. So the word is that you shouldn't be worried if your downstroke shoulder turn becomes flat at some point after start down. This is good. Now I can put to rest my Turned Shoulder plane confusion. Finally, you bloody rippa!!
Now
"After a 13-B or 12-C Backstroke Shoulder Turn, the Right Shoulder moves toward Impact precisely on the preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane, estblishing and supporting the Power Package Delivery alignments."
Can someone clear this up for me. How can the rear shoulder move downplane at startdown, on anything but the Turned Shoulder Plane?
1. Hinge action being differentiated from swivel. While I know programming is required...anyone that can actually differentiate hinge action from swivel is someone with some serious serious talent and feel.
2. Rotating lag pressure point (actually feeling it).
Philly...
Hinge action has the feel of the entire Left arm flying wedge executing a hinge action around the Pin whilie controlling the Clubface Motion...whereas... swivel rotates the shaft around the sweetspot with the lower portion of the arm independent of the hinge action...When you come down ...I'll show you...
Hinge Action - Clubface...
Swivel - Shaft Rotation around Sweetspot
AS
Last edited by annikan skywalker : 11-04-2005 at 09:36 AM.
For the Swinger, you must perform Swivel first to get yourself into position to apply your Horiztonal Hinge Action from Impact to Follow Through.
Swivel into Impact, then apply Hinge Action.
Philly...
Hinge action has the feel of the entire Left arm flying wedge executing a hinge action around the Pin whilie controlling the Clubface Motion...whereas... swivel rotates the shaft around the sweetspot with the lower portion of the arm independent of the hinge action...When you come down ...I'll show you...
Hinge Action - Clubface...
Swivel - Shaft Rotation around Sweetspot
AS
No offense Annikan but the fact that the Shaft rotates around the Longitudinal Center of Gravity or as you said the Sweetspot (see Glossary) is completely separate from Swivel (independent forearm rotation- compared to clubface closing as a result of the turning body or orbiting arms i.e. hinge action). Take swinging- the longitudinal center of gravity- that line from the grip through the sweetspot- is the line of pull- the shaft is completely subservient and helpless - and therefore rotates around that line of pull.
In addition, for further clarification- the shaft rotates around that longitudinal center of gravity, not the sweetspot. The sweetspot just happens to be that point on the clubface that the longitudinal center of gravity passes through the clubhead.
With all due respect ...Are you really sure I'm wrong on this one???.....Lynn personally taught me the shaft rotation around the longitudinal center of gravity(Sweetspot Plane) and it's differentation from Hinge Action.....
If you're really sure... I'm willing to sit back and listen.....
And I have no problem being reproofed if need be...
As a matter of fact Philly ...you and 6B were there when I got up in front of the room at Pine Needles as Lynn discussed this very subject...
BTW please for give me for ...when I said sweetspot I didn't mean on the clubface/clubhead...I meant exactly the LCG which IS the Sweetspot Plane(2-F) ...The invisible plane that we swing and that Centrifugal Force Pulls Outward....
Centrifugal Force is what pulls the string out into orbit...Centrepetal Force is what pulls the string around while its in orbit....
Some say that Centrifugal Force is a ficticious force....
Unfortunatley one of my best friends has a Ph.D in Biomechanics from Penn State....One of the first pioneers of that field of study....states you cannot have Centrifugal Force without Centrepetal Force and Vice Versa..."It's Impossible!!!"
- Dr. Brian Bergerman - Department Head of
Exercise Sciene at Campbell University
Last edited by annikan skywalker : 11-05-2005 at 01:59 AM.
) whether or not the rear shoulder should remain on its downstroke plane angle from the End, to the end of the Follow Through, never leaving it. Is there an official, written in concrete, answer on that?
Hybrid Mode
