9-1-5...Pics - LynnBlakeGolf Forums

9-1-5...Pics

The Golfing Machine - Advanced

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-01-2006, 12:08 PM
golfbulldog golfbulldog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 647
Originally Posted by rwh
The desired head position is shown in the photos in 9-1 -- the "Body Zone". These photos are shown for the stated purpose of depicting the movement of the body that will result in "balance, a motionless head and any required tilt of the torso." In each of the photos, 9-1-1 through 9-1-12, there is a white card on the background curtain that serves as a reference for the motionless head throughout the swing.

See 2-R for a note on how to interpret photos in the book.
Thanks for your reply.

I was hoping that you would reference the photos in 9-1. They too show head movement( more than just head swivel) and your reference to 2-R is the key. Homer states that the photos were posed as expertly as he was able to achieve "as near to 'zero tolerance' as humanly possible". This is the key. Surely his intention is to try to achieve stable head but is aware that this cannot always be achieved ( even when the model is posed by Homer himself - let alone during a full swing).

NOW compare the conditions under which these photos are created with those that have lead to 10 pages of discussion!! Non tripod, non sequencial action photos!! One cannot draw ABSOLUTE conclusions from material of this quality. It may be all we have to work with but that does NOT mean we should therefore work with it - not if the level of conclusion you desire is proof for or against such "absolute" laws.

The real answer is get better data! THEN draw conclusions.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-01-2006, 08:04 PM
Trig's Avatar
Trig Trig is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 846
Minimal Compensations Please!
I remember the demonstration of a peice of string with weight tied to one end. You can move your hand in very tiny cirlces and spin the weight around and around in a circle. You can generate a ton of speed with very little movement of the hand.

BUT! The minute you start moving the hand laterally (ie, swaying) it kills the natural spinning motion of the weight and it slows down dramatically.

So while I wouldn't argue you can't hit a golf ball while swaying, it seems like you are robbing yourself of clubhead speed not to mention the inconsistency of trying to always sway back into the correct position to hit the ball. Swaying requires compensations.

So I guess the real question from the instructor's point of view is, if you have a talented athlete who hits the ball great with a swaying motion should you try to change it? And would you ever teach a swaying motion to someone who wasn't swaying?

Stated another way - should the instructor try to teach the student to have the fewest compensations possible? It seems this is the essence of TGM. Mr. Kelley never said you CAN'T have compenstations, but he did say you should strive to eliminate them to have the most effective stroke.

I have had a lot of instructors over the years that gave me band-aids and never attempted to teach me the correct alignmnets and a stroke with miminal compensations. I wasted my time and money on every one of them.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-01-2006, 09:33 PM
Yoda's Avatar
Yoda Yoda is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,681
An Ideal Within Tight Tolerances
Originally Posted by rwh

Anyone who builds things will tell you it's all about staying within tolerance and I believe that is what is going on with the head.
Exactly, Bob. Thanks.
__________________
Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-01-2006, 09:37 PM
Yoda's Avatar
Yoda Yoda is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,681
The Chin Swing
Originally Posted by rwh

The head is not "motionless" in the strictest sense, because it does rotate around its vertical axis, similar to what the torso is doing. One only has to notice where the nose is pointing to see that the head rotates.
Correct. The photos in 9-1 and 9-2 clearly illustrate that Head Rotation about an axis -- Johnny Miller called it a little 'chin swing' -- does not violate the concept of Stationary Head maintaining its position in space.
__________________
Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-01-2006, 09:44 PM
Yoda's Avatar
Yoda Yoda is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,681
A Sway By Any Other Name...Is Still A Sway
Originally Posted by rwh

It seems to me that HK uses "motionless head" in reference to the snares of Bobbing and Swaying and, in that regard, the model's head approaches the ideal of "motionless" with a much tighter and acceptable tolerance.
Correct. That is the point that started this whole thread. If the Head and Upper Spine move to the right, you have Swayed. If they move up and down, you have Bobbed.

Yet the concept of a visible and unmistakeable lateral move of the upper torso is being taught in many quarters. It is geometrically incorrect and deserves the warning label Homer Kelley so justifiably applied.
__________________
Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-01-2006, 09:54 PM
Yoda's Avatar
Yoda Yoda is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,681
Hula Hula
Originally Posted by rwh

One thing that is often overlooked is that "weight shift" to many instructors includes what the upper body is doing (the position golf bromide of "get your chest over the right knee"). To Mr. Kelley, "weight shift" is exclusively limited to Hip motion.
To my mind, this is one of Homer's great contributions. He identified the lateral Hip Shift as the source of the Weight Shift. Again, this is not the lateral Head and upper spine shift recommended by so many, but a Hip Shift. The Head maintains its Stationary position in space -- it can rotate responsively to the Turning Body in both directions and is not required to remain 'perfectly still' as some misinterpret -- as does the upper spine between the shoulders. Hence we have the complete independence of the Hip Motion from the Head and Shoulders and with it, the ability to Shift the Weight in both directions while maintaining a fixed Pivot Swing Center. In TGM parlance, we have 'Hula Hula flexibility.'
__________________
Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-02-2006, 10:35 AM
galopin galopin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by Yoda
To my mind, this is one of Homer's great contributions. He identified the lateral Hip Shift as the source of the Weight Shift. Again, this is not the lateral Head and upper spine shift recommended by so many, but a Hip Shift. The Head maintains its Stationary position in space -- it can rotate responsively to the Turning Body in both directions and is not required to remain 'perfectly still' as some misinterpret -- as does the upper spine between the shoulders. Hence we have the complete independence of the Hip Motion from the Head and Shoulders and with it, the ability to Shift the Weight in both directions while maintaining a fixed Pivot Swing Center. In TGM parlance, we have 'Hula Hula flexibility.'
How much of the weight shift is just the Arms and Club moving from the center of the body to either side of it?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
questions and pics grapegoat Emergency Room - Swingers 1 06-06-2006 09:46 PM
Backstroke Pics annikan skywalker The Golfing Machine - Basic 17 08-23-2005 08:34 PM
More Downstroke Pics annikan skywalker The Golfing Machine - Basic 11 08-22-2005 03:08 AM
More Pics annikan skywalker The Golfing Machine - Basic 1 08-18-2005 03:51 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:23 AM.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.