c. Tripod gives the indication of 3 supporting points required. Having the third point lie between the other two doesn't meet the criteria for a tripod.
With his words "precisely between the feet," I believe Homer was talking about a face-on view, not down-the-line. The Waist Bend locates the Head outside the vertical plane of the Feet. The hinge pin through the Head to the ground would establish the "three supporting points" you mention.
My own 'Isoceles Triangle' concept uses the triangle as the geometric figure describing the relationship of the centered Head to the Feet. It is not a graphic representation of the Tripod itself.
With his words "precisely between the feet," I believe Homer was talking about a face-on view, not down-the-line. The Waist Bend locates the Head outside the vertical plane of the Feet. The hinge pin through the Head to the ground would establish the "three supporting points" you mention.
My own 'Isoceles Triangle' concept uses the triangle as the geometric figure describing the relationship of the centered Head to the Feet. It is not a graphic representation of the Tripod itself.
If I am visualizing this correctly, the hinge pin throug the head, nah, I am not.
What I was visualizing was the the hinge pin from the head down through the spine. This can't be cause the hip motion (shifting and possible turning) would move that line, saying it started in the center, it certainly would be their at impact.
Maybe the Hogan concept is more accurate and in line with what Homer was leaning too. After all Hogan didn't say it had to support weight, merely make contact with the ground.
I think the last statement is important because I gathered a number of readers were seeing the triangle as the tripod. A sidenote, one of the pictures in one of the thread on this topic that was using the triangle, failed to take into account the slope or camera angle and cause the apex of the triangle to be placed outside the head. I am still working through this with the triangle and effect the stance width has on it with regards to its relationship to the ball position. Also this would seem to define a limit or a check point for when the hip slide goes beyond a certain point as it would move the apex cause of the shortening of the right side and axis tilt.
Still very rough..
So the visualization I should have would be
a. A line from the left foot/leg to the base of the skull
b. A line from the right foot/leg to the base of the skull
c. A line from the base of the skull ???? (This is the hinge, it rotates around the spine, so does it follow the spine?)
Sorry for being so dense on this and a pain...
Edited
L1, L2 or L3(The Hogan Concept)? or should I toss this and start all over again in search of the third leg?
What I was visualizing was the the hinge pin from the head down through the spine. This can't be cause the hip motion (shifting and possible turning) would move that line, saying it started in the center, it certainly would be their at impact.
And don't forget, Martee, the Tripod exists despite any Body movement between the Head and Feet. Per Homer Kelley:
"The important thing is that the true Swing Center -- for all components -- is around a Hinge Pin with one end at the top of the Stationary Head and the other in the ground precisely between the Feet, with no regard for Body Location or Position at any time."
This would make it a Horizontal Hinge Pin (Perpedicular to the ground) at all times no matter what components/variations have been selected.
Quote:
....the other in the ground precisely between the Feet, with no regard for Body Location or Position at any time."
Makes me wonder if in fact Homer did select his words carefully and meant actually in between the feet. I say this cause he states between the feet and doesn't care if you have an open, closed or square stance. Had he stated horizontal to the ground, it would have had a different meaning.
I assume that we are talking the alignment wrt Impact Fix.
I can't recall the golfer, from the 30s I believe talked about using a plumb line attached to the head and swinging and it was to remain in place....
This would make it a Horizontal Hinge Pin (Perpedicular to the ground) at all times no matter what components/variations have been selected.
Martee,
I know what you are saying here, and I'm not trying to be picky, but since you have raised the issue, I do think it is important to get it exactly right.
The Pivot Center hinge pin is vertical -- not horizontal -- to the ground. Its purpose is to anchor the Pivot, not to produce a specific plane of motion. Thus, it is not analagous to the Hinge Assembly of 1-L #4 and 2-G that controls the Clubface and Clubshaft and their respective planes of motion.
That Hinge Assembly contains two vertical pins, one to control the Clubface and one to control the Clubshaft. The Clubface Control pin is positioned vertical (perpendicular) to one of the three Basic Planes -- Horizontal, Vertical or Angled -- in order to produce a specific Clubface Motion (Close only, Layback only or simultaneous Close and Layback). The Hinge Assembly is then named according to plane of Clubface motion it produces, i.e., Horizontal, Vertical or Angled. In each case, though, the hinge pin itself is vertical to its Associated Plane.
The Clubshaft Control pin is likewise positioned vertical, but only to the Vertical plane. This pin permits the Clubshaft to be lowered (vertically) from either the Horizontal or Vertical Clubface Control Hinge onto the Inclined Plane. No such pin is necessary for the Angled Hinge Assembly because that arrangement automatically produces an On Plane Clubshaft.
The Left Wrist also contains a vertical hinge pin, and it is for Clubhead Velocity Control. It is positioned vertical to the Vertical plane and permits the perpendicular Cocking and Uncocking of the Left Wrist (2-K #5). It does not permit any Left Wrist horizontal motion, i.e., Bending or Arching. However, it does permit Left Wrist rotational motion as produced by the swivel action of the Forearm (2-K #4).
I know what you are saying here, and I'm not trying to be picky, but since you have raised the issue, I do think it is important to get it exactly right.
The Pivot Center hinge pin is vertical -- not horizontal -- to the ground. Its purpose is to anchor the Pivot, not to produce a specific plane of motion. Thus, it is not analagous to the Hinge Assembly of 1-L #4 and 2-G that controls the Clubface and Clubshaft and their respective planes of motion.
That Hinge Assembly contains two vertical pins, one to control the Clubface and one to control the Clubshaft. The Clubface Control pin is positioned vertical (perpendicular) to one of the three Basic Planes -- Horizontal, Vertical or Angled -- in order to produce a specific Clubface Motion (Close only, Layback only or simultaneous Close and Layback). The Hinge Assembly is then named according to plane of Clubface motion it produces, i.e., Horizontal, Vertical or Angled. In each case, though, the hinge pin itself is vertical to its Associated Plane.
The Clubshaft Control pin is likewise positioned vertical, but only to the Vertical plane. This pin permits the Clubshaft to be lowered (vertically) from either the Horizontal or Vertical Clubface Control Hinge onto the Inclined Plane. No such pin is necessary for the Angled Hinge Assembly because that arrangement automatically produces an On Plane Clubshaft.
The Left Wrist also contains a vertical hinge pin, and it is for Clubhead Velocity Control. It is positioned vertical to the Vertical plane and permits the perpendicular Cocking and Uncocking of the Left Wrist (2-K #5). It does not permit any Left Wrist horizontal motion, i.e., Bending or Arching. However, it does permit Left Wrist rotational motion as produced by the swivel action of the Forearm (2-K #4).
So, in The Golfing Machine®...
There are no horizontal pins.
There are no angled pins.
There are only vertical pins.
I agree need to be correct..
No Horizontal pins, I stated Horizontal Hinge Pin, 1-L is labeled Horizontal Hinge Pin...Now I am really confused, cause I went to 1-L and used the percise terms/words that are in the book.
I did note that the pin itself was perpendicular to the ground cause we had this dicussion on hinge pins and vertical before, where my preferrence is to use perpendicular cause of it normal reference of the word vertical and horizontal.
So you are telling me that my label is incorrect? If so then my use of 1-L was totally misplaced...and .... I really need help here. The label on 1-L is rather clear to me...
No Horizontal pins. I stated Horizontal Hinge Pin, Sketch 1-L is labeled Horizontal Hinge Pin...Now I am really confused, cause I went to 1-L and used the percise terms/words that are in the book.
So you are telling me that my label is incorrect? If so then my use of 1-L was totally misplaced...and .... I really need help here. The label on 1-L is rather clear to me...
I understand your confusion, Martee, and it gets worse...
In addition to the Horizontal Hinge Pin label you see on Sketch 1-L, you also see an Angled Hinge Pin. The labels are indeed clear, and they are seemingly in direct conflict with my post stating there are only vertical pins. What's going on here?
The key is in how you read the words:
HORIZONTAL HINGEpin...the (vertical) pin of the Horizontal Hinge. Not a HORIZONTALhinge pin.
ANGLED HINGE pin. The (vertical) pin of the Angled Hinge. Not an ANGLEDhinge pin.
Hybrid Mode
