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Downstroke shoulder lag

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Old 03-11-2006, 01:52 PM
Triad Triad is offline
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Originally Posted by tongzilla
1) Yes. The Pivot slows down during the Downstroke, but you should also preserve the Downstroke Release Sequence (6-M-1) and the consequent Lag and Drag in the Pivot Train (6-C-0).

2) The Shoulder Turn Throw (10-20-C) should always be used with the Wrist Throw (10-20-E). Otherwise you will be contending with Clubhead Throwaway, or a Full Sweep Release if skilfully performed with Educated Hands (10-20-A). So, start with the Shoulder Turn Throw, then finish it off with a Wrist Throw and Delivery Path Throw (10-20-D) combo to get nice Automatic Snap Release (10-24-E).

3) Even though your Pivot does and should slow down to blast that essentially inert Left Arm off, it shouldn't be a deliberate 'applying the breaks' type movement. That would be like Steering the Pivot.

4) All the Patterns Yoda and I described have the Right Shoulder 'On Plane' on the Downstroke. This is regardless of whether you're using a Shoulder Turn Throw or Shoulder Turn Thrust.
Tong, your points 1,2 and 3 were very clear. I lost you on point 4. Would you mind differentiating between the Shoulder Turn Throw and Shoulder turn Thrust? ST Throw = 10-20-C, ST Thrust = 10-?-? ??

10-20-C calls for a short, sharp acceleration (thrust?) of the right shoulder against the #4PP.

How are you defining a Shoulder Turn Thrust as a distinct component from the Shoulder Turn Throw. Is it a longer, more sustained thrust than the short, sharp acceleration of 10-20-C? Is this more compatible with the driving right arm of the hitters motion?

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Triad
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Old 03-11-2006, 04:39 PM
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tongzilla tongzilla is offline
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Shoulder Turn Thrust and Trigger
Originally Posted by Triad
Tong, your points 1,2 and 3 were very clear. I lost you on point 4. Would you mind differentiating between the Shoulder Turn Throw and Shoulder turn Thrust? ST Throw = 10-20-C, ST Thrust = 10-?-? ??

10-20-C calls for a short, sharp acceleration (thrust?) of the right shoulder against the #4PP.

How are you defining a Shoulder Turn Thrust as a distinct component from the Shoulder Turn Throw. Is it a longer, more sustained thrust than the short, sharp acceleration of 10-20-C? Is this more compatible with the driving right arm of the hitters motion?

Thanks,
Triad
The Shoulder Turn Throw is a Trigger Type, whereas Shoulder Turn Thrust describes the use of the Right Shoulder to drive the Lever Assemblies and is not a Trigger Type. You need Shoulder Turn Thrust to use the Shoulder Turn Throw.

For both Hitters and Swingers, the Right Shoulder is used to overcome the initial inertia of the Clubhead during the change in direction. After this inital phase, the Hitter uses the Right Shoulder as a backstop for the Right Arm to push off. However, for the Swinger, the Right Shoulder continues to actively drive down plane against Pressure Point #4. Only for the Full Power Four Barrel Hitting Stroke does the Right Shoulder continue to be active, but it is still used by the Right Arm to push off.
Whatever you choose to do, the Right Shoulder is always leading the Hands (i.e. lagging Hands, Arm and Club -- "Pivot Lag").
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Old 03-12-2006, 03:56 PM
Triad Triad is offline
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Originally Posted by tongzilla
The Shoulder Turn Throw is a Trigger Type, whereas Shoulder Turn Thrust describes the use of the Right Shoulder to drive the Lever Assemblies and is not a Trigger Type. You need Shoulder Turn Thrust to use the Shoulder Turn Throw.

For both Hitters and Swingers, the Right Shoulder is used to overcome the initial inertia of the Clubhead during the change in direction. After this inital phase, the Hitter uses the Right Shoulder as a backstop for the Right Arm to push off. However, for the Swinger, the Right Shoulder continues to actively drive down plane against Pressure Point #4. Only for the Full Power Four Barrel Hitting Stroke does the Right Shoulder continue to be active, but it is still used by the Right Arm to push off.
Whatever you choose to do, the Right Shoulder is always leading the Hands (i.e. lagging Hands, Arm and Club -- "Pivot Lag").

Thanks Tong. I have a few more questions, but it may be more appropriate to start a new thread on them. However, if you could humor me for one quick one to jump start my thought process I would appreciate it. I have always been a little blurry on the difference between Trigger Types and Release Types. My basic thought is that Trigger Types refer to the how of the accumulator release sequence whereas Release Types refer to the when/wherethey are released. That is to say that, for instance, the Wrist Throw trigger could occur at the TOP/Startdown for a Full Sweep release, or much deeper, say at Aiming Point for a Snap Release. Both procedures would be using the same Trigger Types, but at different Release Types/points. Am I on track here?
Thanks,
Triad
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Old 03-12-2006, 04:04 PM
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tongzilla tongzilla is offline
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Originally Posted by Triad
Thanks Tong. I have a few more questions, but it may be more appropriate to start a new thread on them. However, if you could humor me for one quick one to jump start my thought process I would appreciate it. I have always been a little blurry on the difference between Trigger Types and Release Types. My basic thought is that Trigger Types refer to the how of the accumulator release sequence whereas Release Types refer to the when/wherethey are released. That is to say that, for instance, the Wrist Throw trigger could occur at the TOP/Startdown for a Full Sweep release, or much deeper, say at Aiming Point for a Snap Release. Both procedures would be using the same Trigger Types, but at different Release Types/points. Am I on track here?
Thanks,
Triad
Yes, you are on track Triad! It's always good to keep the identities of these components separate, and deal with their interrelatedness with that in mind.
Like I said before, if you want a Snap Release (where the Release begins at the very end of the Delivery Path), there are certain Trigger Types (combinations) that are more compatible than others.
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