I think he picked Ben Hogan's name out of the sky or something, either that he didn't read my post that carefully... I said I don't care "what any tour player does for that matter".... his name was never said nor implied explicitly or implicitly. What I was talking about was the alignments of the golfing machine.
On a mechanical basis, the question is do you want that left forearm (swivel joint in 2-K) to roll through impact which will make the clubface control (in Homers words) 'extremely fleeting' to where the rapidly closing clubface is in its impact fix condition for the smallest duration.... or do you want to hold the impact fix alignment of the clubface for a sizeable period by holding the left wrist vertical whilst the motion of the left arm preforms a hinge action to precisely control the closing of the clubface just like a closing door. I know which one I strongly think is better. And he is yet to debate this fact except on the grounds that 'Ben plays well' and I'm sorry to tell this to them but that isn't really good enough a reason. Old Tom Morris played well for his time too, should we have stuck to his mechanics? I study the golfing machine because I want to understand and learn and nothing gets in the way of that and if they have a legitimate debate to give in responce thats based upon something solid I would be all ears and so far they are yet to come up with one...and as far as im concerned the mechanical simplicity and superiority of preforming a hinge action over a swivel is 100% undeniable and extremely obvious if you can visualise the machine concept.
I don't recall the section off the top of my head, but I'm surprised this conversation hasn't gotten back around to the straightening right arm and its effect(s) on clubHEAD and RPM/rate of closing.
A properly straightening right arm (motion/direction) and elbow location, prevents any 'early roll' before both the both arms straight position and helps ensure hinge action stays perpendicular to its associated plane.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
I don't recall the section off the top of my head, but I'm surprised this conversation hasn't gotten back around to the straightening right arm and its effect(s) on clubHEAD and RPM/rate of closing.
A properly straightening right arm (motion/direction) and elbow location, prevents any 'early roll' before both the both arms straight position and helps ensure hinge action stays perpendicular to its associated plane.
Im not sure if I quite agree with you Edz, this is something which only recently i've really gotten into my head even though intellectually I knew it before.
The right arms role is to merely stretch out pp3 with extensor action(the stretch), right forearm pickup(the movement), and 'lock in' the plane by tracing its baseline (the point of that stretch) unless your hitting in which case the right arm also powers the downstroke(the movement). Remember hitting or swinging it is always a left arm stroke. The right arm allows control of certain alignments - as the right forearm traces back the plane line it controls the secondary hinge (the one that lifts the arm up and down) and cocking of the left wrist per the magic of the right forearm... it maintains its own impact alignment (right flying wedge) by pushing pp3 going towards the line. However the hinge action of the left arm staying flat on the primary hinge and its swivel joint turning and rolling whilst the left arm makes its motion against that hinge powered either by the pivot or right forearm creating a pressure against it(hint to those that think theres something called right arm swinging - its not happening ever ever!) is entirely a job for the left arm alone to monitor, it is not the right arms job to get involved with trying to monitoring it.
Im not sure if I quite agree with you Edz, this is something which only recently i've really gotten into my head even though intellectually I knew it before.
The right arms role is to merely stretch out pp3 with extensor action(the stretch), right forearm pickup(the movement), and 'lock in' the plane by tracing its baseline (the point of that stretch) unless your hitting in which case the right arm also powers the downstroke(the movement). Remember hitting or swinging it is always a left arm stroke. The right arm allows control of certain alignments - as the right forearm traces back the plane line it controls the secondary hinge (the one that lifts the arm up and down) per the magic of the right forearm... it maintains its own impact alignment (right flying wedge) by pushing pp3 going towards the line. However the hinge action of the left arm and its swivel is entirely a job for the left arm alone to monitor, it is not the right arms job to get involved with trying to monitoring it.
Note I mentioned right arm motion, not right arm action, an important difference.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
However the hinge action of the left arm staying flat on the primary hinge and its swivel joint turning and rolling whilst the left arm makes its motion against that hinge powered either by the pivot or right forearm creating a pressure against it(hint to those that think theres something called right arm swinging - its not happening ever ever!) is entirely a job for the left arm alone to monitor, it is not the right arms job to get involved with trying to monitoring it.
Theres something I want to add to this....
The only way to make a hinge action of the clubface is if that swivel (left wrist) is held FLAT through at least from impact to followthrough and in its impact location against the blade of that hinge that the entire left arm is against. Otherwise your clubface control is feel and feel alone !
Edit - there is something else I want to add. Even though the upper left arm is theortically always going to be against that hinge regardless of how 'it is turned or rolled' - The real control is in that left wrist staying flat to the blade of the hinge which is what you monitor - so in actual fact even if the swivel is working is rolling against the flat part of the upper arm in 2k it is still a hinge action because the wrist is against the blade. But before any guys get their hopes up - this is not what 'Ben does'. But if you truely want the left arm to 'work as one' through impact - you'll need to keep it flat also (whatever its location may be) against the hinge at least through impact to followthrough, but it is not at all manditory...just monitor the left wrist to make sure its vertical to its associated plane of whatever hinge action you produce. This could spark off a whole new debate - should acc#3 be a motion made with just the wrist....
Hybrid Mode
