No I mean't it as an arguement is absurd....thats your interpretation....
Sorry, but that reads as though you left a few words or some punctuation out. If I've misconstrued your two one liners and they were not meant to be personal attacks or demeaning, then that's fine. Others will form their own views of your "Perhaps you think the strings are pulling the hands - if you do your intellect is rivaled only by that of garden tools" proposition.
Quote:
The right arm and flying wedge driving the secondary lever assembly and its onplane relationship with the axis of rotation - right shoulder... why do I have to repeat myself....
This time it is because you chose to answer a question which wasn't asked.
Here's the thread...
You wrote: Relative to the object - the turning axis is the work involved to create the centripetal force - the string becomes taut - centrifugal force
I wrote: Ok, and the centrifugal force acts on?
You wrote what I quoted above beginning with "The right arm ...".
So, let's take a step back to what you wrote:
"the string becomes taut - centrifugal force"
What does the centrifugal force act on?
You are right that you can write responses in any form you choose. I reject your claimed sovereignty over what my duties are and where any onus lies unless of course it is part of the terms and conditions of this web site.
Last edited by golf_sceptic : 06-27-2006 at 06:01 AM.
In response to my comment about centrifugal force Yoda wrote:
Quote:
Nevertheless, the concept as he defined it in the Glossary -- "The effort of the Swinging Clubhead to pull the Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club) into a straight line" -- is the essence of the Physics of Rotation. As any kid who has ever whirled a rock on a string could tell us.
Unless I am very much mistaken, yoda was suggesting that centrifugal force is responsible for both the "pull" on the primary lever, and the tension in the kid's string.
As a result, I explained the forces involved in the kid and the rock example
Quote:
In the rock on the string example the rock is affected by only one force. That is centripetal force and it is what causes the rock to follow a circular path.
As a result of the string pulling on the rock, the rock pulls on the string with an equal and opposite force. That is the centrifugal force.
Going further, the boy pulls on the string (centripetal) and the string pulls on the boy (centrifugal).
To balance the pull from the string, the boy leans back ever so slightly and uses gravity to balance himself.
If we can get past this point, I'd like to discuss the validity of the other part of yoda's quote from a physics point of view. The point I'd like to stress is that the centrifugal force does exist, but affects the kid (via the string) and not the stone. Does anybody need further clarification of the kid and the rock?
Last edited by golf_sceptic : 06-27-2006 at 06:04 AM.
Going further, the boy pulls on the string (centripetal) and the string pulls on the boy (centrifugal).
Actually, the boy pulls on the rock (centripetal force) and the rock pulls on the boy (centrifugal force). The string is the medium through which these equilibrants do battle.
Actually, the boy pulls on the rock (centripetal force) and the rock pulls on the boy (centrifugal force). The string is the medium through which these equilibrants do battle.
Originally Posted by golf_sceptic
Thanks for replying yoda.
Ok. There's a hair which may need to be split depending on whether the string's mass can be ignored, but so far so good.
Are we agreed that centrifugal force does affect the boy but in any way affects the rock?
While we are hair splitting - are they both equilbrants or is one a resultant?
While we are hair splitting - are they both equilbrants or is one a resultant?
I'm not familiar with the term "equilbrants", but action/reaction pairs are always equal and opposite, and it is helpful to identify the action/reaction pairs before considering resultant forces on each object.
I would consider equilibrium (taking a guess at your meaning) to apply to an individual object within a system, or to the system as a whole. Action/reaction is a different concept to equilibrium.
Are we agreed that centrifugal force does affect the boy but in any way affects the rock?
Actually, the rock is simply trying to move in a straight line. The centripetal string prevents it from doing so, and the apparent force -- from the rock's point of view -- is centrifugal.
Actually, the rock is simply trying to move in a straight line. The centripetal string prevents it from doing so, and the apparent force -- from the rock's point of view -- is centrifugal.
Excellent, we've got to the core of the issue very quickly.
When we speak of the rock's point of view, we are talking (I hope) about what you would see through a tiny camera attached to the rock. Through this camera we would see such interesting sights as a stationary rock (because we are attached to it), the centre of motion (the boy's hand) would be stationary, and everything else in the world would appear to be in the process of being flung from away from the centre of motion. The centrifugal force (away from the centre) will neatly balance the centripetal force (toward the centre), but no net force is acting on the rock. It is not being flung out. It just sits there stationary in the camera shot.
The problem is that this is not a helpful frame of reference because it is not an inertial frame of reference. We have to do all sorts of fudging if we are to explain why all of the objects (grass, trees, etc) are being flung away from the centre.
If we want to apply the usual laws of physics we need to look from an intertial frame of reference. The string pulls in on the rock (centripetal). The string pulls out on the man (centrifugal). The force on the rock is not balanced, and the centrifugal force only affects the string and the boy.
1-H (last paragraph) "As a term is specifically defined herein, that is the basic connotation which is always a dictionary definition but not necessarily that of Physics, Electrical, etc. The dictionary is generally considered a standard of precision. Scientific terms in quotes denote a loose application with obvious intent, because no better term seems available. Measurements given herein are for the golf course rather than the laboratory, but the laboratory will show them within acceptable tolerances. Clarity and usefulness are the only motive."
At the time of Homer Kelley's death in 1983, Merriam-Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defined the following:
centrifugal force n: the force that tends to impel a thing or parts of a thing outward from the center of rotation
Hybrid Mode
