Tripod Center Vote - LynnBlakeGolf Forums

Tripod Center Vote

The Golfing Machine - Basic

View Poll Results: Do you teach/prefer the Base of the Neck Pivot Center OR the Head Pivot Center?
Base of the neck 88 64.71%
Head 24 17.65%
It doesn't matter, the Golf Stroke doesn't need a Pivot Center 2 1.47%
They are both the same because the Head includes the Base of the Neck 22 16.18%
Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-22-2006, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoda
First of all, Bob, I appreciate your earlier observation that the Pivot is a two-way street. As such, the Pivot Center concept demands a constant Center in both directions. To the extent this does not occur, a compensation has been introduced. In my opinion, this is the case in the Casper Long-Iron sequence.

The many prior posts on this thread and on similar threads here and on Brian Manzella's site have focused on the Backstroke Pivot and its Center. Accordingly, the primary purpose of my publication of the Casper sequences was to provide an example of a Head Centered Backstroke. There is no question in my mind that, at least in these sequences, Billy is using such a Head Pivot Center. The intriquing question you have essentially introduced, then, is...

Does he change that Head Center to a Between-the-Shoulders Center on the Downstroke? Or, has he simply failed to achieve the perfection of the original Head Center?

I've already commented on the Bobbing in the Stroke. It is a common phenomenon often caused by a failure to position the Head at Address in its Impact Location (hence requiring the Bob as compensation). Regarding the backwards Sway, using that tilted, upside-down triangular shape in the background as the constant, I truly don't see the "ton" of movement you do. It is there, but photos are an exacting measure, and even the most talented among us are entitled to at least some margin of error. Homer Kelley knew that, of course, and that is why he always advised to set your Head where you want it at Impact and then do your best to maintain that location. In other words, centered between the feet (his ideal) or to the right or to the left -- wherever you put it -- leave it there, as nearly as you are humanly able to do so.

Personally, I think Billy is losing his original Head Pivot Center somewhat during the Downstroke. But, he is not reverting to a Between-the-Shoulders Center. The reason this is happening is first, the Bobbing phenomenon explained above, and second, the need for additional Axis Tilt in order to add Loft to the Hooded Clubface introduced by, in conventional terms, his extremely "strong" Grip (Left Hand Turned to Plane). If he didn't create this "artificial" Loft via the slight backward Sway, he couldn't get the Ball airborne with the lower-numbered Clubs. Essentially, he creates a new Head Center slightly down and to the right of the original Center, and he does so dynamically during the Downstroke. Given his original Address position and Grip, is is a necessary compensation.

Finally, I would like to add Photo 9-2-6 (the Top) to your list above. This photo clearly illustrates Homer Kelley's concept of a Head that Pivots on its base, yet remains Centered and Stationary (with regards to Location, not its necessary Pivot capability). This 'look' can be interpreted to mean a Between-the-Shoulders Center, but it is not. As I indicated in Post #26 above, the Ben Hogan sequence more closely approximates these ideals and, hence, Golfing perfection.
Thank you for the time and effort to explain this.

One last question: Does "between the shoulders" mean only the upper (cervical) spine or does it refer to the entire spine running longitudinally between the shoulders.
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Old 08-22-2006, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rwh
Thank you for the time and effort to explain this.

One last question: Does "between the shoulders" mean only the upper (cervical) spine or does it refer to the entire spine running longitudinally between the shoulders.
This is a job for David Orr . ..
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Old 08-22-2006, 09:29 PM
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The Point-Between-the-Shoulders
Originally Posted by rwh

One last question: Does "between the shoulders" mean only the upper (cervical) spine or does it refer to the entire spine running longitudinally between the shoulders.
Per The Glossary, the alternative Pivot Center is the "Point-Between-the-Shoulders."

Interesting, isn't it, that this is the kind of question that invariably arises when a shortcut -- my deliberate elimination of the word "point" in my post -- has been taken. This speaks volumes for the necessity of a unified terminology with which to discuss the complex mechanism of the Golf Stroke.

And with no shortcuts...

No matter how much a particular issue has been discussed.
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Old 08-23-2006, 05:44 PM
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Larry Nelson's Head Pivot Center
Here's a photo of Larry Nelson from the January 1980 issue of Golf Digest and an article honoring his selection as Most Improved Player of the Year.

As we all now know, golf's "quiet man" went on to win two PGAs, the United States Open Championship, a total of 10 PGA TOUR events and 19 Champions TOUR tournaments. He also became the most feared Ryder Cupper of his generation, a member of three winning teams, going undefeated in his first two outings and finishing with a stellar 9-3-1 record. One of the game's great ballstrikers, Larry uses the Homer Kelley-recommended Head Pivot Center.
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Old 08-23-2006, 05:58 PM
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Adam Scott's Head Pivot Center
Here's a look at Adam Scott, one of today's Young Guns of the PGA TOUR. His Head Pivot Center is evident throughout his Stroke. Adam currently ranks 16th in the PGA TOUR's coveted Greens in Regulation statistic. And he ranks 13th in Driving Distance, averaging 300.9 yards off the tee. Those who feel that the Centered Head may gain them accuracy but will cost them distance need look no further than this Greens-hitting, Australian powerhouse.

[The commentary superimposed on the photos is from Golf Digest and is not relevant to this post.]
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Old 08-23-2006, 06:02 PM
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Old 08-23-2006, 07:08 PM
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And he ranks 13th in Driving Distance, averaging 300.9 yards off the tee

More amazing is 47 year old Fred Couples using a head centered pivot is averaging 299.8 yds (good for #20 rank).
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Old 08-23-2006, 09:55 PM
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Senior Larry Nelson -- A Swing For A Lifetime
I had the great privilege of spending a week with Homer Kelley at his home in Seattle in January 1982. Larry Nelson was just beginning to make his mark on the PGA TOUR, and Homer had seen him on TV. I asked him what he thought about Larry's swing:

"His alignments are perfect. His swing will last him his lifetime."

As Larry's career unfolded, we have seen Homer's vision become reality. Here's the "senior" Larry at the Top. Still swinging away...still Centered...and an entire career without hip or back injuries.
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