Green's got a nice swing, but he doesnt seem to be pulling down with his left arm. In fact in his video he he feels that a pulling action leads to having to make a last second flip of the hands to square it up.
He does seem to incorporate the 3 TGM imperatives in his motion...
What people FEEL may not be what is happening. With SWINGING there is a PULL, but often this is a RESULT of doing other things properly. A proper on plane right shoulder motion, for example, can set up the gyroscopic motion of a SWINGER, which has a PULLLING going on.
With HITTING, the hands usually stop at the TOP, AND OFTEN APPEAR TO NEARLY PAUSE before the start down. Of course, some HITTERS APPEAR very much like swingers, with very subtle things going on that make their pattern be classified a HIT, rather tha a SWING.
REMEMBER the story I had told to me... Is the horse PULLING the wagon, or PUSHING against the collar? You would have to ask the horse.
good stuff guys, all of you...I gotta tell you guys last night I think I had a TGM Ephifany that will probably make this Leslie King stuf a moot point. I feel feel like shelving all the books and print out I have (King, E Jones, B Jones, Hogans 5 Lessons, Bertholy SC101, Armour, Flick, et al)
and track down a 7th Edition YB and Brians flipper video. I cant lose what I found last night or be pretty bummed
What I did over 3 holes was just take that reverse K (TGM impact fix?) set up position with an 8 iron, took a nice full turn, came back down with my rt. shoulder tracing, as close as I could, down the target line. From there I just tried to mimmick as much as I could those photos of imapact postions in Lynn's gallery, I think its "Chamions at Impact"(head back, flat to slightly bowed left wrist, shoulders square hips open)
What happened was incredible, Ive never hit irons that crisp, with that kind of unbelievable trajectory in my life. All with a pretty swing. Im sold guys...Where is the best place to get a 7th edition or would a 6th edt. be ok for newbie?
Thanks for your input on King, Green and Croker...
good stuff guys, all of you...I gotta tell you guys last night I think I had a TGM Ephifany that will probably make this Leslie King stuf a moot point. I feel feel like shelving all the books and print out I have (King, E Jones, B Jones, Hogans 5 Lessons, Bertholy SC101, Armour, Flick, et al)
and track down a 7th Edition YB and Brians flipper video. I cant lose what I found last night or be pretty bummed
What I did over 3 holes was just take that reverse K (TGM impact fix?) set up position with an 8 iron, took a nice full turn, came back down with my rt. shoulder tracing, as close as I could, down the target line. From there I just tried to mimmick as much as I could those photos of imapact postions in Lynn's gallery, I think its "Chamions at Impact"(head back, flat to slightly bowed left wrist, shoulders square hips open)
What happened was incredible, Ive never hit irons that crisp, with that kind of unbelievable trajectory in my life. All with a pretty swing. Im sold guys...Where is the best place to get a 7th edition or would a 6th edt. be ok for newbie?
Thanks for your input on King, Green and Croker...
Great man.
Those sound, to me, like a couple good keys you have there....Impact oriented...
All I can say is if you have a decent stroke....build upon it rather than trying to find "another one"....
This even is in TGM....(along with a lot of advice like this)....but even then it's tough to do all these things right (I mean learn a swing) when there's SO many things to pay attention to.
Dunno....just wanted to advize of that....cause there's a lot of info there to "get lost in" (at least for a while...you'd get thru it eventually....esp. with an AI)....
-setup (always go back to this...as much precision and understanding as possible)
-trained pivot
-educated hands
-3 Imparatives (how do YOU repeat them best?)
Peter Croker is all right hand/arm. Just check out Peter's videos and articles in Golf Digest it's all about using the right hand...
DG
Dear DG,
I am afraid that such material as was in Golf Digest Cover Story 1995 is only a part of the total picture of the "Croker Golf System."
The right hand is super important, but so is the left.
Did you know that the left hand can "push" in the downswing??
When it does it helps build structure through impact and also is a major cause of the left hip's continued rotation well through impact, follow through, and into the finish.
Perhaps a study of the updates of CGS are worth the effort of further research?
Crocker never speaks of the right hand. He is a Swinger by my guess. Power by pivot and transfer.
Evershed on the other hand speaks solely of the right hand and no transfer accumulator but with a horizontal hinge action.
Machines of every shape and function.
Dear Mike,
Firstly I believe you are referring to me, and it is "Croker" - non "Crocker" (that was Kojak's sidekick)
Secondly you must not have reviewed much of the Croker Golf System.
Perhaps a look at this 24 Component Analysis by Paul Hart (G.S.E.D.) of CGS will help you understand how I use both left and right hand actively in the swing.(and you can Hit or Swing using our System.)
When the alignments are known and understood, the use of both hands in a "PUSHING" orientation is the entrance point to building Control first and Power second.
What CGS has defined is the detailed definitions of the basics of an "uncompensating" golf swing.
Once you have positively identified these basics and their alignments, you can decide whether you want to swing or hit.
It is my belief from my study of Homers works that the alignments can be the same for both.
It is my preference at my stage in my golfing life that I can hit it further and with much less stress on my back and other body parts, if I swing (ie: maximize the rotational forces in the swing motion and use my muscle thrust to maintain structure and move the club on the correct path both back and down, out, and through the ball to a balanced finish.
I appreciate your interest in wanting to define what CGS does, but I would recommend a thorough study first before making such statements as done here.
Homer had it right when he stresses the need for "Educated Hands."
Tom Tomasello was right too when he talked about the value of opinions.
The Croker Golf System acknowledges Homer Kelley for his great work in giving us a Plan of Action - "The 24 Components."
CGS has defined precisely 24 Components that align one to the next and when drilled into a complete motion, allow a golfer to have a)CONTROL, b) POWER, and c) CONSISTENCY.
CGS does have a "preferred pattern" from "A to Z"!
Do you know what it is?
I look forward to your researched answer and the questions that will follow.
Firstly I believe you are referring to me, and it is "Croker" - non "Crocker" (that was Kojak's sidekick)
Secondly you must not have reviewed much of the Croker Golf System.
Perhaps a look at this 24 Component Analysis by Paul Hart (G.S.E.D.) of CGS will help you understand how I use both left and right hand actively in the swing.(and you can Hit or Swing using our System.)
When the alignments are known and understood, the use of both hands in a "PUSHING" orientation is the entrance point to building Control first and Power second.
What CGS has defined is the detailed definitions of the basics of an "uncompensating" golf swing.
Once you have positively identified these basics and their alignments, you can decide whether you want to swing or hit.
It is my belief from my study of Homers works that the alignments can be the same for both.
It is my preference at my stage in my golfing life that I can hit it further and with much less stress on my back and other body parts, if I swing (ie: maximize the rotational forces in the swing motion and use my muscle thrust to maintain structure and move the club on the correct path both back and down, out, and through the ball to a balanced finish.
I appreciate your interest in wanting to define what CGS does, but I would recommend a thorough study first before making such statements as done here.
Homer had it right when he stresses the need for "Educated Hands."
Tom Tomasello was right too when he talked about the value of opinions.
The Croker Golf System acknowledges Homer Kelley for his great work in giving us a Plan of Action - "The 24 Components."
CGS has defined precisely 24 Components that align one to the next and when drilled into a complete motion, allow a golfer to have a)CONTROL, b) POWER, and c) CONSISTENCY.
CGS does have a "preferred pattern" from "A to Z"!
Do you know what it is?
I look forward to your researched answer and the questions that will follow.
Kind regards,
Peter
You do mention the right arm but you never talked about the right hand. I was going to go back and view the Hart series to double check but I see you are now selling them along with the Lynn Blake version of the TT tapes that Delaware Golf provided this forum and the video “letters” from Lee D. They are still free here, I think.
I watched the series a few weeks back and was surprised that with all the right side talk that the right hand wasn’t mentioned. Really. But I didn’t get to double check. I don’t remember you talking about its FBL condition or about the Flying Wedges, etc. You do talk about a sweep- early release of the right arm on the downswing. A throw from the top. Evershed never stops talking about the condition of the right hand and wrist- that bent sucker is his god.
I believe that pull is a left side fling (I can propel a Frisbee with a pull and NEVER push anything) using centrifugal force- pure Newton and a push is a right side drive exploding down off a solid pivot (base).
You cannot push a pull. You cannot pull a push.
Someone can teach a hybrid - a right arm that “swings” moving the center off the left shoulder and onto the right arm elbow. As Homer said you would need loose wrists to put some kind of whirl into the swing. But I think the right arm works best when it straightens through low point- a Hit.
I prefer Homer’s Swing and Hit components. Let Mother Nature Whirl and Blur or the let the Wheaties and Wonder Bread- that built my muscles- do its thing and smash dimples to China. Just my preference. Not saying what you teach is wrong. I know it is a fine golf stroke. It took Lynn Blake to take the Hit pattern that Homer taught and teach it beyond a punch shot or specialty shot TT talks about. It is so different then a Swing, either a pull swing or a push right arm swing.
Options? Plenty. Some work better than others.
Alignments? They never change. On plane is on plane. The Flying Wedges are the same and so forth.
Changes? Whirl or smash. Are you pulling or pushing? Is the pivot rotational or a solid foundation to push off of?
All with a pretty swing. Im sold guys...Where is the best place to get a 7th edition or would a 6th edt. be ok for newbie?
Hybrid Mode
