Give it to Mikey . . . he'll eat anything . . . including human grey matter . . .
Mike . . . I just noticed your 10-20 bucket's closet. . . You are a funny fool!!! Very nice!!! I can't top that!!
No, you topped me in post #54- very nice! No one can top the Bucket! I mean no one!
Matthew,
I'm officially in Bagger's camp, that's the confused camp. Confused but waiting anxiously- love those graphics- but while we're waiting we'll be posting photos, bantering with Bucket, etc. just to pass the time.
The plane of the #3 accumulator is formed on two of it's four sides by
1) the left arm- defined by the straight line between the hand and the shoulder
and assuming a flat left wrist
2)the clubshaft- defined loosely by that straight line from the hands to the clubhead
We're using a zero shift plane in this example and looking at say the movement of the #3 accumulator plane from impact fix to the top in relation to the swing plane.
Since the left shoulder is not on the swing-plane (always "in front" of the swing plane- from impact fix to the top- assuming a #3 accumulator) and the hands are always on plane- then the #3 accumulator plane is closed to the swing plane and not parallel to the swing plane at any point in the backswing.
So your comment "parallel to" throws me. What do you mean by "parallel to" and where and how does that happen?
As a side note- after a little review - I believe that would make the #3 accumulator steeper than the swing plane- I believe I said in an earlier post that it was flatter- easier to see that it is closed to the swing plane but a little tougher to see that it is steeper- I used two small envelopes with one resting on the table at an angle representing the swing plane and the other envelope representing the #3 accumulator plane with the narrow side- resting on the "swing plane" -that's the clubshaft side of the number 3 accumulator plane and the other narrow side of the envelope elevated off of the swing plane with the lower corner representing the left shoulder at some point in the backswing.
The plane of the #3 accumulator is formed on two of it's four sides by
1) the left arm- defined by the straight line between the hand and the shoulder
Yes. You use the angle of the left arm and from this you can keep drawing a 90 degree 3 more times to get the four corners of the plane. Only when you have this relation with the accumulator plane can you then define a truely vertical plane (Jens plane) to relate to both acc#3 plane and the inclined plane. When both these planes directly face each other by the left hand turning towards the inclined plane, they directly intersect each other on a straight line. Because they directly face each other they are parallel just in the same way the edges of the cover of a book are parallel when you open it up. This intersecting line in which the secondary lever assembly demands that wristcock be at exactly 90 degrees.
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and assuming a flat left wrist
2)the clubshaft- defined loosely by that straight line from the hands to the clubhead
The clubshaft is very close to being onplane when it is turned however due to any hookface position needed, this might not actually be exactly the case. The sweetspot or the longitudinal center of gravity always stays in the accumulator no.3 plane and it is this that we reference....
Quote:
We're using a zero shift plane in this example and looking at say the movement of the #3 accumulator plane from impact fix to the top in relation to the swing plane.
Since the left shoulder is not on the swing-plane (always "in front" of the swing plane- from impact fix to the top- assuming a #3 accumulator) and the hands are always on plane- then the #3 accumulator plane is closed to the swing plane and not parallel to the swing plane at any point in the backswing.
So your comment "parallel to" throws me. What do you mean by "parallel to" and where and how does that happen?
Planes are always referenced as though they were the horizontal. Above the plane is a far more accurate description. The left arm does go into the inclined plane at an angle. And because accumulator no.3 plane is a left arm plane so does it....
They are parallel in the context if you have yet another plane (I'll have to name this one too) on the tangential line of the left arm angle vertically through accumulator 3 plane, the intersecting lines of the inclined plane and acc no.3 plane will be on a parallel angle when moved in a parallel direction away from the tangential line along the line of Jens plane.
The plane shift variations question is out of context.
Yes. You use the angle of the left arm and from this you can keep drawing a 90 degree 3 more times to get the four corners of the plane. Only when you have this relation with the accumulator plane can you then define a truely vertical plane (Jens plane) to relate to both acc#3 plane and the inclined plane. When both these planes directly face each other by the left hand turning towards the inclined plane, they directly intersect each other on a straight line. Because they directly face each other they are parallel just in the same way the edges of the cover of a book are parallel when you open it up. This intersecting line in which the secondary lever assembly demands that wristcock be at exactly 90 degrees.
The clubshaft is very close to being onplane when it is turned however due to any hookface position needed, this might not actually be exactly the case. The sweetspot or the longitudinal center of gravity always stays in the accumulator no.3 plane and it is this that we reference....
Planes are always referenced as though they were the horizontal. Above the plane is a far more accurate description. The left arm does go into the inclined plane at an angle. And because accumulator no.3 plane is a left arm plane so does it....
They are parallel in the context if you have yet another plane (I'll have to name this one too) on the tangential line of the left arm angle vertically through accumulator 3 plane, the intersecting lines of the inclined plane and acc no.3 plane will be on a parallel angle when moved in a parallel direction away from the tangential line along the line of Jens plane.
The plane shift variations question is out of context.
Still don't get it. Parallel? I would think that if the entire plane is parallel to another plane that all points on one plane would be the exact distance from a corresponding point directly across from the other plane- vertical to the plane surface. The accumulator #3 is closed to the swing plane so I don't see how they are parallel and didn't understand your explanation. As you said and agreed with me - the left arm goes into the swingplane at an angle- so I missed how that could be considered parallel. If a book is closed- then I would say that all the pages i.e. individual pages i.e. planes are parallel but if the book is opened up and all the pages are now angled outward from the spine- and "point" in different directions- then I wouldn't consider them parallel. I'm thinking you might be defining parallel differently? Can you restate it using an example unrelated to golf? My issue is to understand what you're saying then we can move forward to Annikan's comment- how do we use it or how does that understanding help us.
On a separate note- wristcock would not affect the #3 accumulator plane.
While the left arm and clubshaft have the possibility of forming a 90 degree angle- that's because you start with some #3 accumulator - becuase the wrist cannot cock 90 degrees. So it's not 90 degrees of wristcock- minor clarification, I believe I understand you were just referring to the left arm - clubshaft relationship- but again since that angle has no influence on changing the #3 accumulator plane- not sure why it plays a factor in your analysis?
As I would say to Bucket- Bring it! The information that is.
Still don't get it. Parallel? I would think that if the entire plane is parallel to another plane that all points on one plane would be the exact distance from a corresponding point directly across from the other plane- vertical to the plane surface. The accumulator #3 is closed to the swing plane so I don't see how they are parallel and didn't understand your explanation. As you said and agreed with me - the left arm goes into the swingplane at an angle- so I missed how that could be considered parallel. If a book is closed- then I would say that all the pages i.e. individual pages i.e. planes are parallel but if the book is opened up and all the pages are now angled outward from the spine- and "point" in different directions- then I wouldn't consider them parallel. I'm thinking you might be defining parallel differently? Can you restate it using an example unrelated to golf? My issue is to understand what you're saying then we can move forward to Annikan's comment- how do we use it or how does that understanding help us.
Ok another book cover example
Put your book against a wall so that when the book is open the books contents are facing the wall. As the two covers extend on to infinity and cut through this wall the lines of intersection will be parallel.
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On a separate note- wristcock would not affect the #3 accumulator plane.
Incorrect.
This is one of the main reasons I showed this relationship. The longitudinal center of gravity is inline with the left wristcock motion which all occurs on the accumulator no.3 plane. Because the accumulator 3 plane is a left arm plane and goes through the inclined plane, accumulator 2 motion can never be seperated from the no.3 accumulator. The only way for them to be completely co-ordinate would be to bend the left wrist to the degree that the accumulator no.3 goes into the inclined plane. Hence so that the palm would actually be touching the plane rather than just turned directly towards it...
In this positional example the longitudinal center of gravity must be at exactly 90 degrees to the left arm so that it is on the line that the two planes intersect otherwise it would not be on plane. The left wristcock motion is a motion made on the accumulator no.3 plane not the inclined plane...
Save me here guys,
Do you agree that the clubshaft is on plane ,and as the secondary lever assembly and one side of the#3 acc angle it sits on both planes?
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