does the staight line thrust of #3 from the top go to the inside aft quadrant of the ball or does the straight line thrust of #3 from the to go to the hand location at impact ?
Either . . . or it could go to the Aiming Point . . . keep in mind the Aiming Point rests on the Delivery Line . . . so if you use the Geometric Plane Line then it's on the Plane Line typically forward of the ball for anything shorter than a 5-iron. If you use an Angle of Approach procedure employing the 10-5-E Closed Plane Line then your Aiming Point would actually be Cross Line on the 10-5-E line to right field.
Get you a buddy or a something to stick the band to the ground. Play around with it. One thing that you will definitely notice is that since the band represents the direction of Thrust . . . from your vantage point as the player . . . Thrust will always be Cross Line regardless of the procedure you employ or what Delivery Line/Alternate Target Line you choose.
is there an arc of the hands from release point to impact hand location with the line delivery paths? would this arc of the hands make it so the straight line thrust from the top to release or the straight line thrust from top to impact hand location are not equivalent?
would a straight line path from top to impact hand location lead to "too much foward lean" and/or swaying?
Deliver LINES are for the Clubhead and Delivery PATHS are for the Hands. If you have a chance to look over the Delivery Path pics in Chapter 10 you'll notice that even with the Straight Line Paths there is an "arc" at the bottom. So this would be the Pulley portion of the Endless Belt. So you can jack your swing up by using Straight Line Delivery Path and a very small pulley and Maximum Trigger Delay ala Sergio. The opposite would be to use a big CIRCLE Path ala Tom Watson.
Not only is there an "arc" at the bottom, but there can also be an Arc at the Top really End. So if you are a Swinger and go to End, then you would Arc back to the Straight Line portion of the Delivery Path. But the Hitter who Ends at Top is basically stopping his backstroke at the TOP of the Straight Line Delivery Path and thus has no need to Arc back from End to the Straight Line Portion. So there can be a Pulley at the top of the Belt and the bottom.
The hands will always move in a circular path somewhere because they are connected to the arms and thus to the shoulders. Keep in mind . . . only thing round about a circle is its circumference . . . everything else is a straight line . . . Radius, Ray, Tangent, Diameter etc. Mr. K said that even with Circle Path the effort is straight line . . . I think that's in there somewhere.
Don't know if I answered your question though.
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 09-23-2006 at 09:10 PM.
sorry 12 piece,i think my initial question was ambiguous. i was referring to the straight line delivery path and not delivery lines(angle of approach).
i may have added more confusion by interpreting in 6-c-2-a, "the straight line thrust of the #3 pressure point toward the angle of approach quadrant of the ball-or aiming point per 1-f , 1-l-9/10 , 2-j-3 and 6-e-2." as the DELIVERY PATH since it too is on the inclined plane.
the pictures of 10-24-e probably answers my initial question. the straight line path goes from the top to the ball and not the hand location at impact even though the hands are in front of the ball and have yet to be released.
in fact every picture of the straight line delivery path appears to go to the ball and not straight to the impact hand location.it also appears that there is a highlighted arrow pointing to the ball, indicating the direction of the straight line thrust ?
Absolutely! The direction of the thrust is definitely to the Ball or Aiming Point . . .
4-D-1 Says it all . . . the best way to wreck the 1st Imperative . . .
Driving the Clubhead toward the Green (Steering), instead of toward the Ball (2-P), is the great disrupter of the Flat Left Wrist.
4-D-1 Says it all . . . the best way to wreck the 1st Imperative . . .
Driving the Clubhead toward the Green (Steering), instead of toward the Ball (2-P), is the great disrupter of the Flat Left Wrist.
Unless, of course, you're a genius like Lee Trevino. He basically set his body way left and swung out to the right with his ball positioned so that the delivery line, the ball and the target line all lay more or less on the same straignt line. Then he could swing the clubhead toward the target with impunity and never break down the left wrist.
so it is correct to say that the straight line thrust(straight line delivery path) of pp#3 is STRAIGHT LINE to the BALL and NOT straight line to the HAND LOCATION AT IMPACT ?
or more simply, does every STRAIGHT LINE delivery path go to the BALL and NOT IN FRONT OF THE BALL ?
Well . . . I would say that Straight Line Delivery Path is to the Aiming Point which could be the Ball, infront of the ball, or behind the ball. All would be somewhere on the selected Delivery Line. The Clubhead seeks out the Delivery Line not the Target Line. But the effort is Straight Line DOWN AND THROUGH regardless of location of Aiming Point or Pulley Diameter.
this thing is hard to screw up. these are pretty hard questions.
are you equating aiming point only with the hand location at impact ? i thought it was the release point with an arc to get the hands to their impact location.
my questions i think are more than theoretical. in a precision system with a hands controlling pivot procedure, this straight line question seems to have important implications.
the picture 9-3-10 IMPACT shows what i mean. there is a huge difference between a straight line path from the top to the ball OR a straight line path from the top to where the hands are at impact in this picture. maybe this is a picture of an aiming point behind the ball.
but look at the picture of 10-24-e # 1 and 10-24-e # 2. the hands are in front of the ball, they have not released, they have hit the arc at the bottom of the straight line, and they are depicted as going down the straight line to the BALL.
is this a "straight line thrust of pp#3 PER 1-L-9" in 6-
c-2-a ?
or we might ask this question about the STRAIGHT LINE DELIVERY PATH & AIMING POINT: which picture depicts this question best the straight line path of 10-24-e #1 & 2 or the purely mechanical picture of the endless belt effect in 2-k-#6 ?
Bossman,
We are mixing our concepts here . . . these are 3 distinct but somewhat related topics.
1. Aiming Point
2. Impact Hand Location
3. Endless Belt
Study 6-E-2 in this regard plus 2-K. If you don't have the 7th Edition you NEED IT. Mr. K expands considerably upon the Endless Belt. Personally I think it is one of the major improvements that make the 7th a "top 3" of all editions (3 and 5 being the others).
I'm going to type what I think is relevant in 6-E-2 for you because I think paying attention to it will also help me. Most of this is the additional part added to the 7th.
6-E-2 THE AIMING POINT CONCEPT The hands and the clubhead combine as Clubhead Lag (5-0, 6-C) and can be utilized to execute "Delivery". . . and the difference in travel distance per degree of Angualar Motion becaus Impact always occurs during the "Pulley" portion of the Endless Belt travel (sketch 2-K #6); regardless of the direction of its Straight Line travel between pulleys (or of the Thrust during the Circle Path 7-23); because both of those lines represent the True Delivery Paths and move - physically - directly at the point on the Ball through wihc the Angle of Approach passes even with Aiming Point procedures; because The Machine delivers the #3 Pressure Point to Impact Fix Hand Location AT IMPACT with all Delivery Paths, Delivery Lines, Pulley Sizes, etc. because its structure is designed to do just that; hence the importance of a sturdy structure around the Endless Belt machinery. That is what makes the Aiming Point procedure possible at all. . . . .
Remember the "identities" of those elements of Release. That is - straight line portion of the Endless Belt locates the required Aiming Point AND VICE VERSA. But it DOES NOT dictate the Endless Belt (Hand) speed AND VICE VERSA. Summing up the Right Arm action - it is always a straight line effort and/or motion and normally, is strictly Clubhead Control. In the meantime the Flat Left Wrist (Clubface Control) under every condition or situation is concerned only with arriving at Impact, Vertical to the ground in the process of executing the selected Hinge Action. So, per 1-F the Hands are correlated independent of every other factor. Practice every phase, over and over until mastered.
So what the hell does this mean? Well it means a lot . . . if you can get this you got a lot of the book licked.
AIMING POINT:
Aiming Point is a point on the selected DELIVERY LINE (Plane Line, Arc or Angle of Approach) at which THRUST is directed DOWN and THRU. The Straight Line Portion of the Endless Belt LOCATES the Aiming Point (so it Points at it).
ENDLESS BELT:
Is concerned with the Hands, their Pressure Points and the ULTIMATE DISMISSAL of the CLUBHEAD. You do not HAVE A CLUBHEAD. You have PRESSURE IN YOUR HANDS. And you are to take your hands and their loaded pressure DOWNPLANE DOWN THE STRAIGHT LINE PORTION of the Endless Belt mechanism down and thru the Aiming Point. Your Hands are the Clubhead AND they are the BELT. The Endless Belt is concerned with CLUBHEAD control and Delivery NOT Clubface control. That is the relm of the Left Hand (Left Hand: Alignments and ClubFACE Right Hand: Acceleration and ClubHEAD).
IMPACT HAND LOCATION:
This differs from Aiming Point. The Impact Hand Location is "located" during Fix (over the left toe). The Machine ALWAYS EVERY TIME NO MATTER WHAT LINE, PROCEDURE, DELIVERY selected is designed to produce the IMPACT FIX HAND LOCATION AT IMPACT . . . and the ULTIMATE CONCERN (back to the 1st Imperative) is to DELIVER A FLAT LEFT WRIST (or its equivalent) VERTICAL TO THE GROUND AT IMPACT while executing the Hinge Action. Back to the Endless Belt per above Impact ALWAYS occurs during the Pulley portion of the Belt . . . but the effort is still a straight line effort.
So to me The Belt is there . . . if you chose to use the straight line portion and have a small pulley diameter you are jacking your PHYSICS up a few notches. But you ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS want your Left Wrist Flat at Impact . . . no matter what even if you choose to stand upon your HEAD.
As far as the pictures you have selected . . . the pic in Chapter 9 I would say is a result of a LARGER PULLEY where as the pics in 10-24-E are actually there to illustrate the Snap Release. The text of that section references Aiming Point which is for executing a Snap Release which of course blends with Automatic Release . . . Here's some new stuff in 6-N-0 of the 7th that I think is relevant:
The smaller the Release Arc (Endless Belt Pulley - constant Hand Speed), the faster the Right Elbow must straighten and the faster there will be "Extension" (Lever Assemblies 2-P) and "Overtaking" (6-F, #3 Accumulator) until the Right Arm becomes straight. All without affecting The Travel Rate of the Endless Belt.
So the pics in 10-24-E you are seeing Max Trigger Delay and the smaller Pulley Diameter which is why you observe the difference in the chapter 9 pics. IMO.
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 09-26-2006 at 10:26 PM.
Thanks Pokechop! I think the Flail and the Endless Belt are BETTER than the Imperatives. Well maybe not . . . The only thing missing is Hinge Action. Of course that is a pretty big "only thing." Homer Kelley was a PURE genius.
Couldn't have made that post if it weren't for LBG . . . I'd still be stompin' around the golf course with my fanger up my nose . . . wait a minute . . .
so it sounds as if we are in agreement ! i realize this is a smaller pulley, i realize the aiming point is on the delivery path, i realize that you are trying to get the hands to their impact location while maintaining the necessary aligments, etc.
but my question is, AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN (and maybe you answered it), is the PICTUIRE 10-24-e #1& 2, AND/OR ALL OTHER PICTURES OF THE STRAIGHT LINE PATH CORRECT in that the STRAIGHT LINE DELIVERY PATH IS STRAIGHT TO THE BALL!!!! OR SHOULD THE STRAIGHT LINE BE DIRECTED AT SOME OTHER POINT!!!
Depends . . . you got options . . . Ball OR Aiming Point . . . least that's what I think.
Note in the quote Mr. K says "That is - straight line portion of the Endless Belt locates the required Aiming Point AND VICE VERSA." And the Aiming Point COULD BE . . . the Ball.
Thanks for this thread--I even printed it out-- and have read it several times. You have definitely clarified some of the more esoteric concepts of TGM for me.
Hybrid Mode
