Guys i use my pivot to supply momentum to swing my hands to the top. However i still perform right forearm tracing and monitor the pressure points in my hands. Yet by what i've read on this thread i would be thrown in the inferior pivot controled hands group as my right forearm does not drag everything to the top. Is this correct? As i'm just using the same concepts for a swinger taught for the downstroke but for the backswing as well.
On another note i've experimented with the right forearm dragging everything to the top and as a swinger found it hard to get to grips with. For me it seemed to encourage hitting tendancies as i found it hard changing the power source from backswing to downswing. When using my pivot as the power source i get more of a feeling of the swinging forces early in the swing and it seems a more natural transition into the downswing.
On another note i've experimented with the right forearm dragging everything to the top and as a swinger found it hard to get to grips with. For me it seemed to encourage hitting tendancies as i found it hard changing the power source from backswing to downswing. When using my pivot as the power source i get more of a feeling of the swinging forces early in the swing and it seems a more natural transition into the downswing.
I have the exact same issue.
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"In my experience, if you stay with the essentials you WILL build a repeatable swing undoubtedly. If you can master the Imperatives you have a champion" (Vikram).
The reason you can't sustain the lag is because you are so eager to make the club move fast (a reaction to the intent of "hitting it far"). So on a full shot you throw it away too early, which doesn't happen for your short chip. (bts)
In a swinger you swing the club up using forearm (shaft pointing to center and a start up swivel enable that). In a downswing, you can use the Shoulder Throw or pivot thrust ( same? but i know its shoulder throw ) , feeling like the end of swing is maintained halfway down the swing and then the sequencial release. Thats how One way swinger use the Pivot. But still not body controlled pivot because the body have to tilt so with the intend that hand can be suported by the shoulder to go down blah blah etc .. too long
In hitter you "Lift it up " using forearms from impact fix and no roll takeaway. Use hand,arm, delivery line throw and simulaneos release.
dont know which chapter.]
Does that give u a clue? ..
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Yet by what i've read on this thread i would be thrown in the inferior pivot controled hands group as my right forearm does not drag everything to the top. Is this correct?
Sorry I brought the word superior up. There is nothing wrong in using the pivot to carry or throw the hands to the end of the backstroke. As long as your hands know where they are going.
You are in very good company.
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1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
A guy named Joe Norwood...used to teach the same takeaway ...Ever read his book..."Golf- O - Metrics"....Another Cult Classic!!!!!
IMO opinion there is nothing wrong with a "Takeaway with the Torso"(Pivot or Shoulder Turn Takeaway)...Just be prepared for a plane shift whether intentional or NOT (BTW...I don't have problem with plane shifts either, just keep the base line straight). It is compatible with a "No Wrist Action Takeaway" which would set up later a Single Wrist Action and Snap Loading....Emphasis on More Physics...Just a Little Less Precision...but still effective enough for 18 Majors...BUT after doing both..I prefer the RFT with Start Up Swivel of the left Wrist Action as my own personal pattern and preference..
The point is of the video is there are huge benefits to a RFT...More than you'd first expect...The first one being tremendous control and precision of your Machine!!!!
Last edited by annikan skywalker : 09-26-2006 at 10:04 AM.
Can one effectively swing the club on one plane using the turned shoulder plane??
Standing inside a plane board set to the turned shoulder plane
one has to place the hands really high and level (See Dianne picture) at address. Does anyone actually do or teach this? PGA tour?
Can one effectively swing the club on one plane using the turned shoulder plane??
Standing inside a plane board set to the turned shoulder plane
one has to place the hands really high and level (See Dianne picture) at address. Does anyone actually do or teach this? PGA tour?
Assuming a Full Stroke, setting up with the Hands, Right Forearm and Clubshaft on a Zero Shift Turned Shoulder Plane is very awkward. Its Straight Line Delivery Path requires:
"...a steeper than normal Elbow Plane compensated with a reaching-out of the arms and a shifting of the Left Hand Grip that places the Clubshaft in the cup of the Hand instead of under the heel of the Hand, and the Right Hand Grip adjusted to correspond." [7-23]
Or, alternatively, the same "steeper" configuration of the Arms with the Left Wrist Uncocked (not Level).
I know of no top-ranked player who Addresses the Ball in this manner (although I suppose the late Moe Norman came close). In fact, most would consider this procedure 'Golf-like' only in its Short Shot applications (with the player standing close to the Ball and using Zero #3 Accumulator).
Full Shots, on the other hand, normally are Addressed with the Forearm positioned much more naturally on the Elbow Plane (and thus below the Turned Shoulder Plane). During Start Up, the Club begins its journey on that Elbow Plane and, as the Backstroke progresses, shifts from this very Flat Plane Angle -- again, very naturally -- to the more Upright Turned Shoulder Plane (where it can be aligned with Shoulder Turn Thrust and Support during the Downstroke). If the Club returns to the Elbow Plane during Release, then there has been a Double Shift (10-7-C) from Elbow Plane to Turned Shoulder Plane and back again. Otherwise, it is classified as a Single Shift (10-7-B) from Elbow Plane to Turned Shoulder Plane (with no return to the Elbow Plane). At no time does this 'tilting' of the Plane Angle affect its straight-line Baseline. In other words, despite any Plane Shift, the Sweetspot continues to point at the Plane Line (1-L #18 ). This alignment, combined with the Left Wrist held Level at Address, makes it unlikely that the player will be aware of either the Single or the Double Shift as they occur.
In my opinion, there is only way to execute a Zero Shift Stroke on the Turned Shoulder Plane from a 'normal' Address position of the Right Forearm and Clubshaft. And that is for the player to ignore this initial Elbow Plane positioning in the Start Up. Instead, he immediately must use the Right Forearm to take the Hands and Sweetspot directly up (and then down) one of the Straight Line Delivery Paths (10-23-A or C). Otherwise, his Address Position has committed him to one of the Angled Line Delivery Paths (10-23-B or D). This assumes, of course, that the player is not using Circle Path Delivery (10-23-E) and its 'no Axis Tilt' Pivot.
Finally, remember always that there are Three Zones of action: Body, Arms and Hands. Accordingly, at no time does the proper use of the Right Forearm and Elbow eliminate, replace or otherwise compromise the Pivot, either its Motion -- the sequenced movement of its Components -- or its geometrical alignments.
Hybrid Mode
