I have always and this may be incorrect, but understood that Basic Motion is best started from impact fix. The real difference for the swinger or hitter in this motion is 'Is the Left Arm' or the 'Right Arm' powering the motion?
Starting at Impact Fix, at least makes the motion 'Smipler' to start with. The Basic Motion should be able to be performed with either hand by itself. This when able to be done gives the golfer IMO the best understanding of the mechanics.
There should be no swivel on the back stroke or foward stroke, the stroke distance is only about 2 feet in either direction.
Key for me was PP#1. Focusing on PP#1 vs the ball and clubhead has allowed me to be successful. When I first did this be hit swinging or hitting, I was allowing separation at PP#1 when I had a ball in front of me. Poor results.
The hinging used for either swinging or hitting, you should be able to perform all three. Learning to perform all three at this stage makes it easier as you progress.
It sounds as if you are having trouble using the Left Arm for swinging.
If you set up at adjusted address, the swinger position, you need to flatten the left wrist and get the right wrist bent. Either motion requires you to start with your hands, so left for swinging and right for hitting.
Hope this helps.
It would be helpful to me and maybe others if they would list how far the distance is for their basic motion with a wedge and say a 7 iron. This assumes basic motion is about 2 feet in each direction, after that you enter acquired motion, which brings other components into play.
Knight - you said something that I didn't know before, but its in the book like you said. #11 of 12-5-1, So this means it must be flat at the address, start-up, backswing, downswing....etc?
I have been trying to swing with a set-up like, I guess one would use on a full shot. I would have a bend left wrist & a flat right wrist, then I would try to flatten the left and bend the right while trying to feel and maintain my pressure points, mainly #1 & #3. Then, this is where my problems have occured, or should I say, lack of complete understanding and mastery.
Knight, do we start from impact fix, like Martee says...it seems that doing it this way is much easier. Thanks again guys...I'm going to read and study some more!
Actually, when I set up for basic motion with my left palm on the front of the grip the left wrist is already flat. I think this happens because of the forward leaning shaft(if the shaft is vertical at address the left wrist will bend, but this is awkward, I prefer to use the club according to it's design). So, hit or swing, my wrists do not change. The left is locked and the right is frozen. If I allow my right wrist to bend this arches the left wrist....not good.
Trane, what grip are you using for basic motion ? Do you have the heel of your left hand on the top ? Are you eliminating pivot, shoulder turn, and accumulator #3 ? Just like it says: "This stage concerns mainly the basic body positions and the basic power package component alignments and arm motion power accumulators." Homer even spells it out for us with that paragraph. Then he says the same exact thing with the list. This is how I see that paragraph as a summary of the items in the list: (referring to the numbers in the list) 9 and 12 moves 14 and 15. It is a very specific combination. You said you focus on pressure points #1 and #3. #1 is not on the list, only power accumulator #1. So the right arm power only funnels through pressure point #3.
This is just my interpretation. I would really like this to be either confirmed or corrected.
Basically, what I am trying to say is there are only 2 power accumulators and 2 pressure points listed. Hitting or swinging. No power from the hands, only pressure. After feeling some nice compressions, and even a little shaft flex with my 7 iron on hitting strokes I am getting familiar with my power package as a whole. When I started to think about stage 2 the line that really jumped out at me was "This stage introduces body motion and the alignments and relations of the hand action power accumulators of the power package." This is how I found power accumulator #2. I never understood wrist cock and uncock. Now I can see why it is velocity power. It really whips that clubhead down, then transfers to wrist roll. The Jeff Hull videos for me were extremely helpful. Actually having a professional, who practices instead of trains this stuff still is one of the most helpful things for me. I think I am gonna watch them right now.
My setup on a full shot is different than a chip shot. I use a more narrow stance
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"Golf is not a subject but a motor skill which can only be learned and not taught." - Michael Hebron
"The Body, Arms and Hands have specific assignments during the Golf Stroke, and they must be coordinated into one efficient motion." - Lynn Blake
Day 1 apprentice probably can't handle the myriad options available and needs to be told what to do - item by item - a master craftsman can appreciate the joy of options. As a day 3 apprentice this is was i have found i needed to be told to try and make it work - not sure if its right but....
12-5-1 BASIC MOTION ( by the book ! )
"2 feet in both directions
ZERO OUT THE PIVOT, shoulder turn and accumulator 3
Concerns body alignments ( ie. zone1) , power package component ALIGNMENTS ( ie. FLYING WEDGES ) and arm motion power accumulators ( # 1 and #4 )"
consequently:-
Here are two items which are not expressly identified in the 12-5-1 section
As swinging is so often associated with centrifugal force, flywheel and pivot it is hard to work out what to do when you try to swing BASIC MOTION but you are not allowed to pivot??
A key for me was realising that swinging is PULLING - and you can use pivot to pull OR the left arm
"10-3-D. PULL
The term "Pull" indicates that the Club is being accel¬erated by either Arm (1-F) but always with a Rope Handle procedure, per 2-K, 6-B-4 and 10-11-0. It is always a "Swing," per 10-19-C. (Study 7-1.) When used with a Major Basic Stroke, it can produce Full Power (10-11-0)."
ALSO read
"6-L-0. NON-PIVOT STROKE DELIVERY
In a "Non-Pivot Stroke" the Arm motion begins immediately and proceeds toward the Release Point as independently as possible of any incidental body motion. Monitor slow shots for "Clubhead Sag," i.e. dropping Below Plane in either direction. (See 2-N.) However, for a Zero Pivot Stroke, see 10-12-D. And be sure to locate the Ball well aft of normal to avoid "running out of Right Arm." "
12-5-1 mentions 10-3-A for the right elbow position but in making it happen i think that 10-3-D is the only way i can make a non-pivot pulling motion!
Maybe i just don't get it but i am sure i have read something from Yoda about this - just can't find the thread!
So my understanding of BASIC MOTION swinging is that as a non pivot stroke you have to move the ball back in the stance and your left arm ( without shoulder motion/turn) moves across the chest to power the PULL ( ie. swing)
BUT NOTE THAT PP2 and 3 are listed - there are to be sensed as passive pressure AND THAT PASSIVE PRESSURE SHOULD BE MAINTAINED.
In the video with Lynn and Ben Doyle - Ben talks about using the pivot to move the hands - this seems to be an extension of Homer's original BASIC MOTION to the "chip pitch". No harm in that as long as you distinguish it from the pivotless stroke that 12-5-1 requests.
"In the video with Lynn and Ben Doyle - Ben talks about using the pivot to move the hands - this seems to be an extension of Homer's original BASIC MOTION to the "chip pitch". No harm in that as long as you distinguish it from the pivotless stroke that 12-5-1 requests."
I saw that in the video & your assessment makes a lot of sense to me.
OK, I discovered with yall's help and the Yellow Book...I havn't had my Accumulator #3 zeroed out! I think I have had some pivot and shoulder turn as well. That's why owning the book is so very imprtant. To all out there reading these posts that don't own TGM book, I recommend it.
As for zeroing #3 Accumulator out, do you guys use the reverse wrist cock? or hold the club in the cup of the left hand?
Also, is a reverse wrist cock the same as "uncocked 4-B-3"?
I have been gripping the club under the left hand pad with level hand/wrist condition...another thing that has been wrong with my basic motion...not doing it per 12-5-1.
I'm trying to feel only these and trying to learn and follow the basic curriculum...SOLID guys and the ball isn't spinning to the right like it was before.
The feeling that I have with my PP is that I'm trying to bend my grip in half like your trying to break a pencil. Is this right? Nice lag and maintaining the desired wrist conditions thru the shot.
It would be helpful to me and maybe others if they would list how far the distance is for their basic motion with a wedge and say a 7 iron. This assumes basic motion is about 2 feet in each direction, after that you enter acquired motion, which brings other components into play.
I use my 60* wedge for all my practice. My basic motion goes 10 yards and my acquired motion is 40 yards.
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A mile from the place that golf calls home
After I wrote that second response yesterday I had a major egg hatch in the incubator. You forced me to take a step back and look at the big picture...regarding basic and acquired motion. It helped me put together my thoughts, instead of continuing to study and read more in depth detail.
So I took my 'interpretation' of stage 1(which you helped me to pull out of my head) and hit some chip shots. But something was missing. Then it hit me like a big Mack truck....Combine this 'interpretation' with my recent discovery of the flail. This turned into, what I call a 'swing idea' instead of a swing thought.
I can actually relate this to chess (I know I am going off on a tangent here, but just stick with me for a minute). I was a poor chess player, until I read something from this book by Jeremy Silman called 'How to Reassess your chess' that instantly sent my level up exponentially. In the very beginning he says this
"A sound plan makes us all heroes, the absance of a plan, idiots."
-G.M Kotov quoting a mysterious 'chess sage.'
"At some time or another every tournament player learns a few opening lines, some tactical ideas, and the most basic mating patterns. As he gets better and more experienced he adds to this knowledge. However, the one thing that just about everybody has problems with is planning. From class 'E' to master, I get blank stares when asking them what plan they had in mind in a particular position. Usually their choice of plan (if they have any plan at all) is based on emotional rather than scientific considerations. By emotional I mean that the player typically does what he feels like doing rather than what the board wants him to do. If you want to be successful, you have to base your plans on specific criteria on the board, not on your mood at any given time!
"Planning is the process by witch the player utilizes the advantages and minimizes the drawbacks of his position. In order to promise success, planning is thus always based on diagnosis of the existing characteristics of a position; it is therefore most difficult when the position is evenly balanced and easiest when there is only one plan to satisfy the demands of the position."
Swinging a golf club without an understanding of how it works, and what to do with it is like playing chess without a plan (Go back to the Kotov quote).
Ok, so we can say that this is like a 'swing plan based on an idea.'
Here it is: For basic motion, power accumulators #4 and #1 move pressure points #2 and #3 utilizing the law of the flail. Specifically the first law of the flail.
This seems to work well. Am I on the right track here ?
__________________
"Golf is not a subject but a motor skill which can only be learned and not taught." - Michael Hebron
"The Body, Arms and Hands have specific assignments during the Golf Stroke, and they must be coordinated into one efficient motion." - Lynn Blake
KnighT wrote...Ok, so we can say that this is like a 'swing plan based on an idea.'
Here it is: For basic motion, power accumulators #4 and #1 move pressure points #2 and #3 utilizing the law of the flail. Specifically the first law of the flail.
Maybe I am just out to lunch or missing what you meant. But if the Basic Motion is a swinging motion, ACC#1 is not used and for hitting motion, ACC#4 is not used.
A swinging motion is the left arm pull, A hitting motion would be the right arm push so to speak.
So what am I missing from your statement, cause it should be one or the other, after all we are talking about a max of four feet travel of the club.
I am just thinking and developing ideas. I need guys like you, Martee, to help me refine. This is exactly what I was hoping for, and why I post. For help because I sure need it.
Here it is modified: Basic motion swinging - Use accumulator #4 to move pressure points #2 and #3 with the law of the flail. Basic motion hitting - Use accumulator #1 to move pressure points #2 and #3 with the law of the flail. Then the pressure points move the golf club.
The real key (for me) is no hand accumulators. Just allow the arm power accumulators to move the pressure points.
It is just alot different for me than banging balls (before I found The Golfing Machine). Trying to just 'find it' hoping that improvement would gradually come. This is similar to the tournament chess player who is able to play well even though he is not utilizing a plan during his matches. Sure there was some improvement, but that would tend to slow and hit big brick walls often.
This stuff is probably already ingrained into your head...and swing, but for me it is just all starting to come together.
I think the big thing for me is that I can use the law of the flail to apply good leverage with any length stroke. I just never got it like that before. I was unable to allow the primary lever assembly flail at stage 1. Now I can. I know many of you probably say 'yeah, so what', but for me, and maybe some other members (who have not figured this out) this is pretty big stuff. And I like it alot.
__________________
"Golf is not a subject but a motor skill which can only be learned and not taught." - Michael Hebron
"The Body, Arms and Hands have specific assignments during the Golf Stroke, and they must be coordinated into one efficient motion." - Lynn Blake
Hybrid Mode
