In answer to your questions (i'm a swinger by the way):
- I have enough extensor action to feel a slight stretch in my left arm. I apply it through pp #1.
- I'm right handed and play right handed
- I've done a lot of work on my grip and i pretty sure it's good although i've never had that verified by an AI. When gripping with my right i just focus on PP #3 and PP #1 being inline straight down the right side of the shaft towards the sweet spot.
- I concentrate on pp #3 going back, then #2 and #3 going down.
With regards to whats moving what in my basic motion, i drag it back with the right arm and then pull it down with my left.
To give you a bit more info as to where i feel the problem may lie. When playing (i.e not basic motion) i feel like my downswing is initiated by my feet, whether it be a drive, pitch, chip or putt. But when doing basic i feel because theres no pivot, the radius is shortened to my left shoulder. This makes the change of direction feel quick, sharp, tense (all things i associate with playing badly) instead of the lazy and effortless feeling i get when playing well. I also feel like my balance is disrupted slightly.
Thanks for the help,
Danny
Danny,
Regarding your right hand grip. Here is A WAY of checking it. Put the club on a table with the clubface facing "down". Now put your right hand on top of the grip and push the club against the table with pp #1 and #3.
I would suggest that, since it is only 2 feet back and 2 feet through, you only use the right hand, i.e. pull back and push through. And using pp#1 and perhanps #3.Stand in front of a mirror and LOOK. The only thing that should move is the arms.
Your grip pressure should be FIRM but FLEXIBLE. This could help you obtain the smoothness you are looking for.
Regarding your total motion, have a look at 6-M-1.
Looking forward to your comments.
__________________
Golf is an impossible game with impossible tools - Winston Churchill
Last edited by Amen Corner : 11-04-2006 at 09:53 AM.
Thanks for your thoughts golfbulldog, made interesting reading. Nice to know i'm not going completely loopy
Amen Corner i tried your right hand grip drill and not much really happened. The clubface was just trapped against the table.
Quote:
I would suggest that, since it is only 2 feet back and 2 feet through, you only use the right hand, i.e. pull back and push through. And using pp#1 and perhanps #3.Stand in front of a mirror and LOOK. The only thing that should move is the arms.
I tried the above and it was smoother and more controled than my other basic motion. But it felt like a definite hit not a swing.
Regarding your last comment about total motion. I read 6-M-1 and took it to mean in the context of my over accelerlation issues that i'm effectively shortening my radius too early, which is why it feels so quick. It's all about maintaining lag in the lower body and then allowing the accumulators to release naturally.
Thanks for your thoughts golfbulldog, made interesting reading. Nice to know i'm not going completely loopy
Amen Corner i tried your right hand grip drill and not much really happened. The clubface was just trapped against the table.
I tried the above and it was smoother and more controled than my other basic motion. But it felt like a definite hit not a swing.
Regarding your last comment about total motion. I read 6-M-1 and took it to mean in the context of my over accelerlation issues that i'm effectively shortening my radius too early, which is why it feels so quick. It's all about maintaining lag in the lower body and then allowing the accumulators to release naturally.
Danny,
I am sorry for the incomplete instruction regarding the righthand grip. I was in a hurry going out but wanted to post the thread.
When you put the right hand on the club and press with both pp#1 and 3, then take up the club and you should have a ok right handgrip. Modern teaching (which I was guilty to also before I found TGM)teaches out a grip where at the best only pp#3 could push the club against the table.
Regarding the basic motion - I could be wrong about this, if that is the case,I am ready to listen and learn.
There cannot be any pulling by the left arm in basic motion, since it is only 2 feet back and 2 feet through
This statement is made with following in mind. The short distance and per 1L 7/8/10.
What you are doing is building the structure of your swing. In this case the 3D impact and taking it to the end of followthrough,i.e both arms straight.
Now continuing towards the total motion:
When you have this solid base under control, go on to stage 2, where you start as in basic motion. Zero out the pivot, shoulder turn and wrist action first. Take the right forearm to the level to the ground position and hit some balls. When you are comfortable with it add shoulder turn and hit balls. Keep on the same procedure and adding hip turn, desired wrist action and lagloading. Having come this far and controlling it, you continue up to total motion.
Now, this is only A WAY of doing it.
Ok, I am going to bed now and will log on (my) tomorrow to see if there is a reward on me
__________________
Golf is an impossible game with impossible tools - Winston Churchill
Your inputs as well as the others have been in the incubator for a while.
I have been reading the book regarding the pivots involvement in Basic Motion. My conclusion, wrong or right, is that there IS/WAS a reason for Homer to propose the Zero Pivot in Basic Motion.
Here comes some quotes from the book:
"without the Key of Educated Hands per Chapters 4 and 5, more information only means more confusion."
"The Hands are the “Command Post” for all Feel processing."
" Educate your Hands (9-0) to execute the Delivery Path "
"key to control of the Golf Club is Educated Hands."
Well you get it.
With a zero pivot, you must educate your hands.
Don´t you think that Homer would have recommended a little pivot in the basic motion, if he thought that IT(the pivot) would be to an advantage for the process of educating the hands?
It is a whole other story if there are ANY tourplayer that chips/pitchs with zero pivot.
But trust me on this one - they have EDUCATED HANDS
__________________
Golf is an impossible game with impossible tools - Winston Churchill
Your inputs as well as the others have been in the incubator for a while.
I have been reading the book regarding the pivots involvement in Basic Motion. My conclusion, wrong or right, is that there IS/WAS a reason for Homer to propose the Zero Pivot in Basic Motion.
Here comes some quotes from the book:
"without the Key of Educated Hands per Chapters 4 and 5, more information only means more confusion."
"The Hands are the “Command Post” for all Feel processing."
" Educate your Hands (9-0) to execute the Delivery Path "
"key to control of the Golf Club is Educated Hands."
Well you get it.
With a zero pivot, you must educate your hands.
Don´t you think that Homer would have recommended a little pivot in the basic motion, if he thought that IT(the pivot) would be to an advantage for the process of educating the hands?
It is a whole other story if there are ANY tourplayer that chips/pitchs with zero pivot.
But trust me on this one - they have EDUCATED HANDS
Yes, i think that you have a point... if educated hands is the sole issue in golf then taking the pivot out has a part to play...but much of eductaion is situation dependent... hands educated in a pivot free environment need not remember evrything in a pivot power world... maybe...
Hand education must be about lag sensation as well as alignments ( the left wrist is flat because the right wrist is bent... because there is lag pressure)
Zero pivot swing gives minimum lag sensation in my experience.... you can't sustain something you barely know is there...
And i have watched many swinging chip videos and hip move... i am waiting for a demo of zero pivot swing basic motion.... hips frozen...
Read my first post on this thread ( page 1 somewhere) and i was really trying to make zero pivot do the job... just failed i guess... will try again someday...
Yes, i think that you have a point... if educated hands is the sole issue in golf then taking the pivot out has a part to play...but much of eductaion is situation dependent... hands educated in a pivot free environment need not remember evrything in a pivot power world... maybe...
Hand education must be about lag sensation as well as alignments ( the left wrist is flat because the right wrist is bent... because there is lag pressure)
Zero pivot swing gives minimum lag sensation in my experience.... you can't sustain something you barely know is there...
And i have watched many swinging chip videos and hip move... i am waiting for a demo of zero pivot swing basic motion.... hips frozen...
Read my first post on this thread ( page 1 somewhere) and i was really trying to make zero pivot do the job... just failed i guess... will try again someday...
I
I dont know if hand education in stage 1 must be about lag sensation. I can think of educating the hands to keep the structure of the wedges.....
One more thing, I have been a flipper so I know what you are going through. THE thing that made me progress was monitoring the hands...... I even hit chips by just looking at the hands, to make sure of keeping the structure intact. Then keeping my eyes closed, to get the right feel of it.
__________________
Golf is an impossible game with impossible tools - Winston Churchill
Well i've given basic motion with zero pivot a good try, but it's not for me. As a swinger i feel it's just rehearsing probably my worst fault which is over acceleration.
I've been practicing a shot of a similar length that just involves my pivot transporting the flying wedges. This seems to be benefiting my game and in my case i can't see how having the pivot component involved makes it harder to educate the hands.
Well i've given basic motion with zero pivot a good try, but it's not for me. As a swinger i feel it's just rehearsing probably my worst fault which is over acceleration.
I've been practicing a shot of a similar length that just involves my pivot transporting the flying wedges. This seems to be benefiting my game and in my case i can't see how having the pivot component involved makes it harder to educate the hands.
I had the exact same issue , until I met Comdpa and he pointed out and demonstrated to me regarding zero pivot . I suggest don't hurry the incubator.. take some time to try understand this and one day the egg will surely hatch. But one thing i can tell you, you are on the right track to follow Comdpa's suggestion . We cannot keep the whole left arm rigid or glued to your pects. nobody really does that . But neither should the left arm is totally independant of the pects. the pressure point 4 is there for a reason.
There is nothing wrong for the pivot to transport your hands, in fact personally I like it too as a swinger and preferred by swingers. The very difficult part for people to understand is how this pivot transport will make your forearm on plane and your hand on plane.. or how your arm/hand move and how your body have to support this movement in order to be On plane. a chicken ,egg problem in my opinion that you will hear tons of debates , confusion and very angry people. XDDDD.
I got a feeling this TGM forum, Or TGM book is not about quick fix .. the only quick fix you will get is really get a TGM coach to demonstrate the motion, you will understand in a fraction of time( see yodaluke in amazing changes section). This forum i believe is more for the core understanding of TGM, the book, the concept, and the genius behind Homer Kelly. Therefore.. Whisper " These people hates quick fix, they are perfectionist in precision and a true mechanics of golf"
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Latest incubator: Finally appreciate why Hogan wrote 19 pages on GRIP. I bet he could write another 40 pages.
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