Basic Motion Questions

[Amen Corner]

Thanks for your thoughts golfbulldog, made interesting reading. Nice to know i'm not going completely loopy

Amen Corner i tried your right hand grip drill and not much really happened. The clubface was just trapped against the table.



I tried the above and it was smoother and more controled than my other basic motion. But it felt like a definite hit not a swing.

Regarding your last comment about total motion. I read 6-M-1 and took it to mean in the context of my over accelerlation issues that i'm effectively shortening my radius too early, which is why it feels so quick. It's all about maintaining lag in the lower body and then allowing the accumulators to release naturally.

Danny,

I am sorry for the incomplete instruction regarding the righthand grip. I was in a hurry going out but wanted to post the thread.

When you put the right hand on the club and press with both pp#1 and 3, then take up the club and you should have a ok right handgrip. Modern teaching (which I was guilty to also before I found TGM)teaches out a grip where at the best only pp#3 could push the club against the table.

Regarding the basic motion - I could be wrong about this, if that is the case,I am ready to listen and learn.

There cannot be any pulling by the left arm in basic motion, since it is only 2 feet back and 2 feet through
This statement is made with following in mind. The short distance and per 1L 7/8/10.

What you are doing is building the structure of your swing. In this case the 3D impact and taking it to the end of followthrough,i.e both arms straight.

Now continuing towards the total motion:

When you have this solid base under control, go on to stage 2, where you start as in basic motion. Zero out the pivot, shoulder turn and wrist action first. Take the right forearm to the level to the ground position and hit some balls. When you are comfortable with it add shoulder turn and hit balls. Keep on the same procedure and adding hip turn, desired wrist action and lagloading. Having come this far and controlling it, you continue up to total motion.

Now, this is only A WAY of doing it.

Ok, I am going to bed now and will log on (my) tomorrow to see if there is a reward on me

[golfbulldog]

Bump... any new thoughts guys....?

[Amen Corner]

Bump... any new thoughts guys....?

I saw your post on "the other site".

Your inputs as well as the others have been in the incubator for a while.
I have been reading the book regarding the pivots involvement in Basic Motion. My conclusion, wrong or right, is that there IS/WAS a reason for Homer to propose the Zero Pivot in Basic Motion.

Here comes some quotes from the book:

"without the Key of Educated Hands per Chapters 4 and 5, more information only means more confusion."
"The Hands are the “Command Post” for all Feel processing."
" Educate your Hands (9-0) to execute the Delivery Path "
"key to control of the Golf Club is Educated Hands."

Well you get it.

With a zero pivot, you must educate your hands.

Don´t you think that Homer would have recommended a little pivot in the basic motion, if he thought that IT(the pivot) would be to an advantage for the process of educating the hands?

It is a whole other story if there are ANY tourplayer that chips/pitchs with zero pivot.

But trust me on this one - they have EDUCATED HANDS

[golfbulldog]

I saw your post on "the other site".

Your inputs as well as the others have been in the incubator for a while.
I have been reading the book regarding the pivots involvement in Basic Motion. My conclusion, wrong or right, is that there IS/WAS a reason for Homer to propose the Zero Pivot in Basic Motion.

Here comes some quotes from the book:

"without the Key of Educated Hands per Chapters 4 and 5, more information only means more confusion."
"The Hands are the “Command Post” for all Feel processing."
" Educate your Hands (9-0) to execute the Delivery Path "
"key to control of the Golf Club is Educated Hands."

Well you get it.

With a zero pivot, you must educate your hands.

Don´t you think that Homer would have recommended a little pivot in the basic motion, if he thought that IT(the pivot) would be to an advantage for the process of educating the hands?

It is a whole other story if there are ANY tourplayer that chips/pitchs with zero pivot.

But trust me on this one - they have EDUCATED HANDS

Yes, i think that you have a point... if educated hands is the sole issue in golf then taking the pivot out has a part to play...but much of eductaion is situation dependent... hands educated in a pivot free environment need not remember evrything in a pivot power world... maybe...

Hand education must be about lag sensation as well as alignments ( the left wrist is flat because the right wrist is bent... because there is lag pressure)

Zero pivot swing gives minimum lag sensation in my experience.... you can't sustain something you barely know is there...

And i have watched many swinging chip videos and hip move... i am waiting for a demo of zero pivot swing basic motion.... hips frozen...

Read my first post on this thread ( page 1 somewhere) and i was really trying to make zero pivot do the job... just failed i guess... will try again someday...

I

[Amen Corner]

Yes, i think that you have a point... if educated hands is the sole issue in golf then taking the pivot out has a part to play...but much of eductaion is situation dependent... hands educated in a pivot free environment need not remember evrything in a pivot power world... maybe...

Hand education must be about lag sensation as well as alignments ( the left wrist is flat because the right wrist is bent... because there is lag pressure)

Zero pivot swing gives minimum lag sensation in my experience.... you can't sustain something you barely know is there...

And i have watched many swinging chip videos and hip move... i am waiting for a demo of zero pivot swing basic motion.... hips frozen...

Read my first post on this thread ( page 1 somewhere) and i was really trying to make zero pivot do the job... just failed i guess... will try again someday...

I

I dont know if hand education in stage 1 must be about lag sensation. I can think of educating the hands to keep the structure of the wedges.....

I found this thread that you surely have seen.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=2471

Come back with your thoughts

One more thing, I have been a flipper so I know what you are going through. THE thing that made me progress was monitoring the hands...... I even hit chips by just looking at the hands, to make sure of keeping the structure intact. Then keeping my eyes closed, to get the right feel of it.

[golfbulldog]

I dont know if hand education in stage 1 must be about lag sensation. I can think of educating the hands to keep the structure of the wedges.....

I found this thread that you surely have seen.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=2471

Come back with your thoughts

One more thing, I have been a flipper so I know what you are going through. THE thing that made me progress was monitoring the hands...... I even hit chips by just looking at the hands, to make sure of keeping the structure intact. Then keeping my eyes closed, to get the right feel of it.

Thanks for the thread link... i do not consciously remember the link but i feel sure i must have read it sometime... it would have interested me at the time...

I still think that a bent right wrist inevitably means lag sensation is involved... especially if you start from standard (mid body hands) address....because once your left wrist flattens/right bends... you got lag sensation....and maintenance of lag sensation for swingers is usually achieved by pivot moving hands....

BuT in basic motion , zero pivot ( which i have tried and can do OK) the left shoulder pulls the hands forward... and for there to be no pivot the right shoulder needs to be preset in its impact degree of "downness"... otherwise the right shoulder needs to move down to maintain lag sensation at pp3 and this movement automatically creates pivot.

SO zero pivot can be done but 12 inches back and forward at most and ball needs to be back in stance and right shoulder down at impact height...and impact address probably better for both hit nd swing... to ensure no pivot and right shoulder preset in down impact position...

Feels like a mini-total motion HIT but not like a mini - total motion swing... that is my problem

Learning hitting from zero pivot basic motion = ideal.... but learn swinging from chip pitch ... then you have alignments, lag sensation and powersource in mini swing which is an exact scaled down version of total motion.

that is practical, realistic ... why should swingers learn alignments ( straight plane and FLW)without lag sensation being sustained in the maner it will be in acquired/total motion...? that is the last i sa at moment... i will read everyone else though... you guys stimulate thoughts...thanks... but i am sounding like a stuck record... PS . i love hitting for chips and small pitches...with minimal pivot!!

[Thom]

I think that you talk about accumlator lag when you say you need a pivot to get it. The lag pressure in the hands will be loaded by the change of direction from backswing to downswing.

[Yoda]

...for there to be no pivot the right shoulder needs to be preset in its impact degree of "downness"... otherwise the right shoulder needs to move down to maintain lag sensation at pp3 and this movement automatically creates pivot.

SO zero pivot can be done but 12 inches back and forward at most and ball needs to be back in stance and right shoulder down at impact height...and impact address probably better for both hit nd swing... to ensure no pivot and right shoulder preset in down impact position...

The Right Shoulder is part of both the Pivot and the Power Package. Therefore, when Power Package Thrust alone actuates the Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club), Shoulder Motion does not violate a Zero Pivot requirement (2-H).

If, on the other hand, the Shoulder is Pulled into Start Down by the Hip Action, then there has been Pivot Thrust and at least a Partial Pivot.

[EdZ]

Hand education must be about lag sensation as well as alignments .........

A very important point.

[danny_shank]

Bump... any new thoughts guys....?

Well i've given basic motion with zero pivot a good try, but it's not for me. As a swinger i feel it's just rehearsing probably my worst fault which is over acceleration.

I've been practicing a shot of a similar length that just involves my pivot transporting the flying wedges. This seems to be benefiting my game and in my case i can't see how having the pivot component involved makes it harder to educate the hands.