The Pivot is a free Motion, but it nevertheless demands stability. That stability is provided by the Feet and Knees (at its base) and by the Pivot Center (fixed at its top). At the player's option, the Pivot Center can be either the Head or the 'point between the Shoulders.'
After careful consideration, Homer Kelley, author of The Golfing Machine, recommended the Head Pivot Center. Others prefer the 'point between the shoulders.'
With either Pivot Center, the top of the Pivot is stable. By definition.
Now let's think:
The spine connects the Head and Hips. The Hips move laterally -- this is the Weight Shift -- in both the Backstroke and the Downstroke. As the Hips move back and through, so does the spine. And because the top of the spine is attached to the Fixed Pivot Center, its bottom must move away from the Target in the Backstroke and towards the Target in the Downstoke.
It is strange that many who preach as gospel Downstroke 'Axis Tilt' fail to understand Backstroke Axis Tilt.
The Pivot is a free Motion, but it nevertheless demands stability. That stability is provided by the Feet and Knees (at its base) and by the Pivot Center (fixed at its top). At the player's option, the Pivot Center can be either the Head or the 'point between the Shoulders.'
After careful consideration, Homer Kelley, author of The Golfing Machine, recommended the Head Pivot Center. Others prefer the 'point between the shoulders.'
With either Pivot Center, the top of the Pivot is stable. By definition.
Cool cool. And no doubt Homer did consider very carefully.
BTW I realize there is seemingly a large void between "Homer Kelly" and "others"....but that's ok.
To me, who said what is not so much the determining factor.
Quote:
Now let's think:
The spine connects the Head and Hips. The Hips move laterally -- this is the Weight Shift -- in both the Backstroke and the Downstroke. As the Hips move back and through, so does the spine. And because the top of the spine is attached to the Fixed Pivot Center, its bottom must move away from the Target in the Backstroke and towards the Target in the Downstoke.
So who is a model of this? Monty? (correct me if I'm wrong...and I'm honestly not trying to be cocky BTW)
Works for Monty....and Freddie Couples....and Sergio (I think)....
All I know is that not everyone pivots like that....
And that a lot of very good golfers (seemingly the majority of the most successful golfers....including some of the best ballstrikers) do not keep their head Stationary. (and/or Stationary between the feet)
From "Joe blow" PGA Tour Player (I say "Joe blow" but really these guys are among the best 150 or so players in the world) to some of the best ballstrikers in history even...
I'm not gonna make a list but I think it's fairly obvious if you look at a bunch of pictures of the best players and best ballstrikers...
And I don't want to say that this is the sole reason why these players have risen to the top.....or that no one does the "tripod" (although it does seem to me that less do)....but hey.......
.....does this mean these players could be/could have been better then? I don't know....
Quote:
It is strange that many who preach as gospel Downstroke 'Axis Tilt' fail to understand Backstroke Axis Tilt.
Such is the power of misconception.
I may have missed something...not sure....anyway....
I can't speak for anyone else really....but I dunno that it's so much of a misconception as to how it works...(although I could be wrong)...
More as to how well it works. (as far as every golfer, or even the majority of golfers, is concerned)
Last edited by birdie_man : 11-08-2006 at 03:30 PM.
.....does this mean these players could be/could have been better then? I don't know....
Now you are getting somewhere Birdie. Keep thinking along those lines because LBG is basing our entire future on it. Stationary head and tripod center are just two elements of a more precise golfstroke. There are many more. If you look at our tagline we are about Precision and Power. Can the best in the world make use of more precision? What about the hacker?
__________________
Bagger
1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
Stationary head and tripod center are just two elements of a more precise golfstroke. There are many more. If you look at our tagline we are about Precision and Power. Can the best in the world make use of more precision? What about the hacker?
Spot on Bagger. This is what I believe.
Along these lines, I wonder if pros (you guys in here can weigh in please) feel like they are keeping a stationary head and the variance can only be observed in video slo-mo? I don't think I've ever read about pros trying to move or maintain a couple inches movement either way.
In reading this thread to learn more about TGM, I noted that Yoda stated in post #53, #56 and #61 that the lower spine moves away from the target at the startup of the backstroke. Surely that is wrong.
Doesn't the lower lumbar spine move towards the target as the golfer pivots over the right femoral head in the backswing?
Here is a diagram showing the movement of the right femoral head in the backswing pivot action - it moves backwards and leftwards. That causes the lumbar spine to move slightly leftwards, although the face-orientation of the lumbar spine becomes increasingly rightwards.
In reading this thread to learn more about TGM, I noted that Yoda stated in post #53, #56 and #61 that the lower spine moves away from the target at the startup of the backstroke. Surely that is wrong.
Doesn't the lower lumbar spine move towards the target as the golfer pivots over the right femoral head in the backswing?
Here is a diagram showing the movement of the right femoral head in the backswing pivot action - it moves backwards and leftwards. That causes the lumbar spine to move slightly leftwards, although the face-orientation of the lumbar spine becomes increasingly rightwards.
Jeff.
It depends on the type of Hip Turn. If you agree with Homer and believe that there should be a Hip Slide or shifting of weight prior to the Hip Turn (10-14-B) and that there's a Stationary Head, then the base of the spine would be moving away from the target in Start Up.
The diagram that you've used would assume no weight shift and a single axis of rotation. (10-14-C)
Thanks for the reply. Do you know which PGA tour golfers allow their pelvis to slide to the right during the backswing. It is my impression that most PGA tour golfers pivot-rotate around a slightly flexed right knee and don't allow the pelvis to slide to the right. Some, like Ben Hogan, even push their pelvis left-laterally in the late backswing, causing even more left-shift of the lumbar spine, as the following photo series demonstrates.
Thanks for the reply. Do you know which PGA tour golfers allow their pelvis to slide to the right during the backswing. It is my impression that most PGA tour golfers pivot-rotate around a slightly flexed right knee and don't allow the pelvis to slide to the right. Some, like Ben Hogan, even push their pelvis left-laterally in the late backswing, causing even more left-shift of the lumbar spine, as the following photo series demonstrates.
Jeff.
I appreciate the 3-D of the hips that you posted. But, we are unable to see a 3-D picture of Hogan's hips.
I always have questions about 2-D pictures. Do we know that the camera was on a tripod or was it held? Do we know the distance from camera to golfer? Do we know the wind conditions and the trajectory on which the golfer wanted the ball to travel? Do we know the shot pattern required for the given hole? Do we know that the subjects in the background are standing perfectly still? In making so many assumptions about a couple of pictures, any hypothesis would have a hard time holding water.
It does look like his left hip relative to his fellow competitor has moved to the right, in the second picture. And, that could be attributable to many things.
Hybrid Mode
