K so we have a few pics posted of various players....
All with different Strokes BTW....
I don't know EXACTLY where these people's spines are so I would only be guessing...
Snead's could very well be where you've drawn it...
Although this is only one picture of him taking one shot.....and also only one player throughout a mass history of great players....if you're right tho it would prove that it CAN work for people.....I know that already tho....it wouldn't be a problem with me.
...
To me, I think your spine (the one beside Snead is you right Mathew?) is more to the right than where you've drawn it tho...you can see the indent in your back......no?
Adam Scott....I dunno.....isn't that pic the one that's edited from the one where he was hitting on an upslope?
Regardless, to me, his head is slightly to the right of the red line (given, only a small amount...to me)...and as for his spine....I dunno lots about spines....but that doesn't look right to me. (where you've drawn it) Anyway tho I'm no expert on spines and this picture may not be a good one to analyze anyway.
And....regardless of all THAT....I don't think Scott is a guy who keeps his head Stationary anyway (and I don't think keeps it in the center of his feet either)....
Maybe if we found pics of him with a short iron it would show more of a "tripod".....maybe....
Sigh...
Anyone got a wall I could bang my head against....
Yes that is where exactly where Sneads spine is.
Yes that is precisely where my spine is.
I don't think you can deny it birdie - that is where the spine goes.
Your definition of a reverse pivot is a spine tilting away from the target. Your assumption was that concentrating on a stationary head causes a reverse pivot. I said that the reverse pivot is a fallacious term because NOTHING is going in reverse.
So basically what your saying is that Adam Scott, Jack Nicklaus, Ben Hogan, Sam Snead, Moe Norman, Harry Vardon, Bobby Jones and pretty much every great player in history has a 'reverse pivot'. Ok .....
Snead uses a standard anchor thats why the spine tilts to the right. As leg straighten to the direction of the turn = tilt towards that direction .
Question 1;
A reverse pivot is keeping most of the weight in front feet during the back swing. But does it qualify as a reverse pivot? How does this "reverse pivot " by sam snead in anyway benificial or Not benificial to a swing since, the Pivot reacts to the path of the hands.
Another question:
I also notice that if the head is not right at the center of the feet but more of center of the shoulder ( not center), there is a tendency to bob down slightly during downswing. AlA Ben Hogan etc. You tend to bob down a touch. Is my observation correct? I think the reason Homer Kelly prefer center of the feet.
Matthew .. thanks for making the point and you have to stick the tapes on the back to show it . I salute you in the spirit of letting everybody learn golf. The Golfing Machine way.
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They are not a sequence - but the two frames I took with my digital camera seperately on self timer. I could of easily walked into a different spot, I may of put the camera down at a slightly different angle, I may of swayed... who knows....
The intention is to only show the position of the spine relative to the hip action.
They are not a sequence - but the two frames I took with my digital camera seperately on self timer. I could of easily walked into a different spot, I may of put the camera down at a slightly different angle, I may of swayed... who knows....
The intention is to only show the position of the spine relative to the hip action.
Try again
No doubt they are in a different spot based on the position of the hips and the middle board of the door.
There was a film done by TGC with Jim McLean and Sam Snead. The video has a lot of footage of Sam Snead's swing. In the film Mr. Snead indicated that he allowed his head to swivel a little, but otherwise he kept the head steady.
I think that from some of the posts from Mr. Skywalker... we can see that in order to keep a centered HEAD in a golf stroke, the various portions of the SPINE(Cervical, Thoracic, Lumbar) are not staying straight like a ROD. Actually... if this is attempted, the HEAD WILL most likely MOVE during the stroke.
There was a film done by TGC with Jim McLean and Sam Snead. The video has a lot of footage of Sam Snead's swing. In the film Mr. Snead indicated that he allowed his head to swivel a little, but otherwise he kept the head steady.
I think that from some of the posts from Mr. Skywalker... we can see that in order to keep a centered HEAD in a golf stroke, the various portions of the SPINE(Cervical, Thoracic, Lumbar) are not staying straight like a ROD. Actually... if this is attempted, the HEAD WILL most likely MOVE during the stroke.
Agreed . . . According to 1-L the Stationary Post is at least in my estimation a imaginery line through the head and into the ground. The spine is the center of the shoulder turn and NOT the center of the stroke. The POST doesn't bob and sway meaning the TOP of the post (head) and bottom . . . point on the ground in the middle of the feet.
There was a film done by TGC with Jim McLean and Sam Snead. The video has a lot of footage of Sam Snead's swing. In the film Mr. Snead indicated that he allowed his head to swivel a little, but otherwise he kept the head steady.
I think that from some of the posts from Mr. Skywalker... we can see that in order to keep a centered HEAD in a golf stroke, the various portions of the SPINE(Cervical, Thoracic, Lumbar) are not staying straight like a ROD. Actually... if this is attempted, the HEAD WILL most likely MOVE during the stroke.
That swivel of the head is a move more people should use IMO. One of the reasons people tend to move their head in the first place is that it gets in the way of the shoulder turn.
Far easier to both keep a steady head, and to get a fuller turn, with the chin swiveled before the takeaway ala Snead and Nicklaus.
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Anyone got a wall I could bang my head against....
I'm sure you can find one for yourself if you try hard enough Mathew....lol...
Or a stress ball.
Know what works good? Give the meaty part of your index finger a good solid BITE!!....(hey I guess that's PP#3 eh )....makes the frustrations of life just melt away man...
Quote:
Yes that is where exactly where Sneads spine is.
Yes that is precisely where my spine is.
I don't think you can deny it birdie - that is where the spine goes.
Ok there you go....maybe if that pic was posted in the first place. I only denied it because the first pic didn't show that as clearly.
Regardless, those (u and Snead) are only 2 pics....and only one was a world class golfer. (and it's only 1 pic of Snead)
Still a lot of hip slant but there you go....there's A pic where his head isn't Stationary OR centered between the feet.
And his spine isn't tilted towards the target either.
But it's only 1 pic....
Quote:
Your definition of a reverse pivot is a spine tilting away from the target.
Nono- towards the target. To me, ya that's more or less what it is. (although there are different degrees of tilt as well as different degrees of how well it works for people)
Quote:
Your assumption was that concentrating on a stationary head causes a reverse pivot.
Really...as to not overgeneralize.....what I REALLY think....is it isn't a good pivot for a lot of golfers.....like most slicers....and I don't buy into the idea that it is optimal, long-term, for ALL people and ALL shots.
....
I mean....and I don't even care....
I prolly have a toward-the-target tilting spine for a lot of short iron shots or chips/pitches or lower trajectory shots.....but not for driver ever....and not for normal/high trajectory mid-long irons....
And I setup with my head prolly in the center of my stance sometimes (or even forward of it)....i.e. on chips/pitches/low shots...
I personally don't ever keep a Stationary Head for anything but non-Pivot Strokes....i.e. chips/putts.
That's me personally. I know you prolly don't care but w/e....
Quote:
So basically what your saying is that Adam Scott, Jack Nicklaus, Ben Hogan, Sam Snead, Moe Norman, Harry Vardon, Bobby Jones and pretty much every great player in history has a 'reverse pivot'. Ok .....
Yes....emoticons....
Anyway....
I don't agree....
You have to look at more than one picture of each player...and look at pictures with different clubs in hand and hitting different shots....
But.....
Disagree with "every great player in history".....
Disagree on Adam Scott and Jack Nicklaus....
Disagree a lot of the time (depending on the shot or sequence you're viewing) on Ben Hogan, Moe Norman, Sam Snead....
Maybe for some shots or in some sequences....
And BTW....sure....Bobby Jones had a "reverse pivot"....lol. If we're gonna go by that definition. (how strongly you react to the term "reverse pivot" is up to you...I do realize it's usually a super negative term so might not be the best fit)
But it worked for him obviously- the guy won the slam.
I don't care man I've got nothing to hide.
Here- works for Freddie and Sergio too.
There you go. (whoopty doo)
...
The bottom line for me is do what works best for yourself. (and I think that leaves more than one option)
Last edited by birdie_man : 11-08-2006 at 03:41 PM.
)....makes the frustrations of life just melt away man...
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