Stationary Head - To be or not to be

[birdie_man]

Birdie_man,

What do U use?

Stationary or not?

Can U do both? And if so, pls tell what U think of them. Benefits and so forth

I don't know that what I use is overly important but I can put er down for the record...

I use a "between shoulders" Pivot Center....i.e. head moves to my right slightly.

Depending on the club or shot I'll setup with it in different places. As of now, pretty much always back of center with driver and most longer shots. Wedges etc. I setup with weight on the left side so my head will even be forward of center sometimes....it's never Stationary tho. (for Non-Pivot Strokes it would be actually....putts, chips)

As for benefits I'm not gonna get into that. U guys know I'm partial to a "base of neck Pivot center" by now so I'm not gonna go saying it's longer or more natural or etc. etc.

I think it's good to experiment for yourself and see what works best over some time. That will vary from player to player.

...

Also, I've hit it good using both....I just do better with a non-Stationary Head (which is the most important point)....also, I find it more natural for me and more in line with what I DO naturally.

Esp. with long clubs. (but not limited to them)

[EdZ]

Birdie - do you swivel your chin ala Snead/Nicklaus? If not, experiment with this as your first move. You may find this makes it significantly easier to maintain a steady head, while still making a full turn. Should allow you to keep a 'straight stare' at the ball the entire motion.

[birdie_man]

No I don't EdZ....I will give it a try tho next time I hit the range.

[birdie_man]

I dunno EdZ....I just don't think it's for me. (at least not in the direction I'm headed right now....at least...)

[Amen Corner]

I think we are missing something here......

Since the debate of stationary head has come to my attention, I have been reading carefully the book and having thoughts of why Mr Kelley preferred a stationary head.

After reading some thread both here and on another place, I have noticed what I think could be the answer. So here is my take.

Golf is not similar to any other sport in the world that has a kind of ball in it. The biggest difference is namely the ball!

In all other sports, and please correct me if I am wrong, the ball is in motion and the player reacts/moves in accordance to it.

In Golf the ball is stationaryand my thoughts are that because of this, Mr Kelley preferred a stationary head to accurately return the clubhead back at the ball.

And then again, I could be wrong..... Bucket where are you?

[birdie_man]

From what I can gather he simply saw mostly Geometirical benefits. Or at least gave them the most weight. (from what I can gather anyway)

i.e. "the stationary post does not 'sway' or 'bob'"

[Mike O]

Birdie - do you swivel your chin ala Snead/Nicklaus? If not, experiment with this as your first move. You may find this makes it significantly easier to maintain a steady head, while still making a full turn. Should allow you to keep a 'straight stare' at the ball the entire motion.

EDZ, (And anyone else)
Since I haven't followed this thread throughout- I'd like someone to verify that one of the primary debates here is whether the head should stay still or the spine stay still and the head turns somewhat around the spine.

If that is the case then we would have:
1) The head does not turn or rotate at all- and the head stays still- and the spine stays still
2) The head rotates on the backswing and the head stays still - so that the base of the neck spine (Cervical) in that scenario has moved towards the target.
3) The head rotates on the backswing and the Cervical spine stays still so the head rotates around to the right on the backswing.
4) The head is pre-rotated- so that again the cervical spine and the head stay still.

There may be more options as I didn't put a lot of thought into this- but maybe others could add to it.

So both views have a stationary center at the top of the tripod- correct? , One has a stationary head with it and one has a rotating head with it.

Here's another question for Birdie Man or others- if you could pre-rotate your head to your desired top of the backswing location before you take the club away, then this would give you a still head and a stationary Cervical Spine- what would be the advantage to letting it move versus pre-setting it?

Those that favor head still- would within that context also be having a stationary cervical spine- correct? So the only difference is one is letting the head rotate and one is not letting the head rotate- and a pre-rotation would unify both camps-correct?

Finally, is there or has there been a perception that a centered spine would have a body "shape" that would show the back leaning away from the target at the top? Why would that be if the only difference is the amount of head rotation?

To clarify and summarize- via at least one previous post on this thread- you'll realize that I'm somewhat neutral on this "debate"- so the only agenda I have is learning more about the golf swing. And again, although I think I know the answers to my questions- I would just like Birdie Man or others who have been involved in this thread to confirm if I understand the issues or if I need some help in understanding them. I know I've got quite a few questions here and some of them repeat but would appreciate the appropriate feedback to confirm where I am on this.
Thanks,
Mike O.

[EdZ]

EDZ, (And anyone else)
Since I haven't followed this thread throughout- I'd like someone to verify that one of the primary debates here is whether the head should stay still or the spine stay still and the head turns somewhat around the spine.

If that is the case then we would have:
1) The head does not turn or rotate at all- and the head stays still- and the spine stays still
2) The head rotates on the backswing and the head stays still - so that the base of the neck spine (Cervical) in that scenario has moved towards the target.
3) The head rotates on the backswing and the Cervical spine stays still so the head rotates around to the right on the backswing.
4) The head is pre-rotated- so that again the cervical spine and the head stay still.

There may be more options as I didn't put a lot of thought into this- but maybe others could add to it.

So both views have a stationary center at the top of the tripod- correct? , One has a stationary head with it and one has a rotating head with it.

Here's another question for Birdie Man or others- if you could pre-rotate your head to your desired top of the backswing location before you take the club away, then this would give you a still head and a stationary Cervical Spine- what would be the advantage to letting it move versus pre-setting it?

Those that favor head still- would within that context also be having a stationary cervical spine- correct? So the only difference is one is letting the head rotate and one is not letting the head rotate- and a pre-rotation would unify both camps-correct?

Finally, is there or has there been a perception that a centered spine would have a body "shape" that would show the back leaning away from the target at the top? Why would that be if the only difference is the amount of head rotation?

To clarify and summarize- via at least one previous post on this thread- you'll realize that I'm somewhat neutral on this "debate"- so the only agenda I have is learning more about the golf swing. And again, although I think I know the answers to my questions- I would just like Birdie Man or others who have been involved in this thread to confirm if I understand the issues or if I need some help in understanding them. I know I've got quite a few questions here and some of them repeat but would appreciate the appropriate feedback to confirm where I am on this.
Thanks,
Mike O.

My main point regarding using a swivel of the chin was to highlight the key reason that most people move their head. This simple address move has a number of very positive benefits to the motion, the most important of which is that it makes it significantly easier to maintain a dead still center. Additionally, it is very useful in preventing the right shoulder from going 'out' during the startdown - a very good way to help prevent roundhousing.

[birdie_man]

Is that the key reason tho?

[EdZ]

Is that the key reason tho?

The shoulder/chin 'collision' forces one to move the entire body away from the target and/or dip to continue the backswing shoulder turn - a common problem. Chin position can have a huge impact.

A swivel of the chin can help prevent this, as well as act as a 'backstop' for ensuring a complete turn.

Flexibility and/or lack thereof, is certainly a factor as well.