"Creation of Lag Pressure" by Ted Fort

[12 piece bucket]

Here are two more observation on the same subject.

1) Lynn Blake discussing the subject of hitting with Ted Fort in part two of the Lynn Blake/Ted Fort/Jeff Hull Video said that "all the hitter's got is his right triceps and if you start using it too soon, your dead." That seems to be a suggestion that the slow downswing waggle simply sets up the right elbow properly "taking up the slack", so that that the right triceps is able to generate maximum lag punching through the ball?

2) There seems to be a signficant difference between Lynn Blake's hitter's start down waggle as shown in the previous Lynn Blake/Jeff Hull video and Ted Fort's. In Lynn Blake's startdown waggle, the right knee bends forward forward as his hips both rotate and move forward. From what I could see Ted's downswing waggle is limited to forward hip movement. Perhaps his hip rotation is reserved to support his "paddlewheel punch".

Are my eyes deceiving me? I wonder whether because Lynn switches between hitting and swinging frequently, it is impossible for him to modify all aspects of his swing throughly everytime he changes from his hitting swing to swinging swing?

You're observations are on point.

1. The Hitter's Startdown is SLOW for a reason. As a result of being total dependent on alignments, structure and the muscle power of the Right Tricep his max hands speed is achieved LATER because he doesn't have CF to help him. The Hitter must accelerate and drive ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE AIMING POINT. If the Hitter's Startdown is too quick he achieves his hand speed too soon.

On the other hand the Swinger is dependent upon CF rather than trying to stifle it. His max hand speed is reached much quicker and then CF just does its work. That is why he is dependent on a QUICK Startdown.

2. Also keep in mind the Pivot is PARALLEL to the Delivery Line selected. Hitters have the Angle of Approach Delivery Line available to them. This is a Cross Line procedure "out to right field." As a result, the Hip Motion is Cross Line rather than On-Line. The Swinger and the Hitter can use the true Geometric Plane Line which is a On-Line parallel slide to the Plane Line. The Swinger can also use the Arc of Approach procedure and as a result the Hip Motion is more of a Turn than a Slide thus being in compliance with the Curved line of the Arc of Approach Deliver Line.

As a result the Startdown Waggles will look different due to the differences in the Delivery Lines.

I can't speak for Yoda . . . but if I had to guess he traces the Straight Plane Line in BOTH his Hitting and Swinging procedures . . . and therefore the startdowns will look somewhat similar as a result of the Delivery Lines being the same.

Just a guess though.

I got the 4th at work. I thought this was illustrative . . . this passage didn't make it forward for some reason but this is from 10-19-0 in the 4th:

Drive Loading Rhythm is Muscular Acceleration - the same Lag Pressure in both directions with steadily increasing Handspeed.

Drag Loading Rhythm is "Centrifugal Acceleration" - the same Handspeed in both directions.

Here's another couple of interesting ones from the 4th that didn't move forward . . . .

10-19-A DRIVE LOADING . . . Drive Loading is the "Axe Handle" technique - an out-and-out Right Arm Thrust against the Clubhead Lag (Angular Inertia) striving to accelerate (radially) a Pre-stressed (Bent) Clubshaft, from a slow Start Down through Impact. . . Clubhead Throwaway here is usually due to over-acceleration.

10-19-C DRAG LOADING . . . Inertia can hold the Clubhead inside the arc of the Hands or hold to a Line Delivery Path (2-L). Centrifugal Force will set in when the Clubhead crosses to the outside and it will begin to pull into its own orbit. Then further acceleration will only cause uncontrolled "Hitting," guaranteeing Clubhead Throwaway.

Develop an "Instant Acceleration" Hip Action (to the desired Handspeed per 10-15-B so that the Throw Out Action (6-B-3) can immediately set up the Rhythm and take over the rest of the Downstroke Sequence.

So the nature of Acceleration is VITAL to the sucess and distinction of the two procedures. The Swinger reaches his max handspeed quickly and then holds it constant. HE MUST NOT TRY TO ACCELERATE HIS HANDS FURTHER!!! On the other hand the Hitter MUST CONTINUE TO ACCELERATE otherwise he will fizzle out pre-maturely. The Hitter is sole dependent on ACCELERATION because he doesn't have CF to help him out.

[rvwink]

I can't speak for Yoda . . . but if I had to guess he traces the Straight Plane Line in BOTH his Hitting and Swinging procedures . . . and therefore the startdowns will look somewhat similar as a result of the Delivery Lines being the same.

Just a guess though.

Based on his demonstration of the hitter's startdown waggle in the original Jeff Hull acquired motion tape,. Yoda's startdown waggle is significantly different from Ted's. I used his downswing waggle demonstration as my model originally, and that is why I was so surprised when the part two Ted Fort interview video showed a significantly different form. Yoda is an astonishingly brilliant guy. But even so, I can't imagine that even he is quickly able to adjust minor aspects of his swing, so that everything is exactly as the book describes when he switches from swinger to hitter and then back again.

I appreciated the rest of your post very much bucket.

[12 piece bucket]

Based on his demonstration of the hitter's startdown waggle in the original Jeff Hull acquired motion tape,. Yoda's startdown waggle is significantly different from Ted's. I used his downswing waggle demonstration as my model originally, and that is why I was so surprised when the part two Ted Fort interview video showed a significantly different form. Yoda is an astonishingly brilliant guy. But even so, I can't imagine that even he is quickly able to adjust minor aspects of his swing, so that everything is exactly as the book describes when he switches from swinger to hitter and then back again.

I appreciated the rest of your post very much bucket.

Yes sir . . . I think this is precisely why he uses Tracing the Straight Plane Line for both Hitting and Swinging. That way the Hip Motion can be the same Slide parallel to the Plane Line . . .

The Hitter using the Angle of Approach has the hips moving to Right Field which is an ENTIRELY different motion . . .

You are very wise to study the different startdowns because they must be compatible with the delivery line you select.

[rvwink]

Yes sir . . . I think this is precisely why he uses Tracing the Straight Plane Line for both Hitting and Swinging. That way the Hip Motion can be the same Slide parallel to the Plane Line . . .

I would like to agree with you, but I can't. Just because Yoda traces a straight plane line, doesn't mean that his hip's slide parallel to the Plane line. The delivery path waggle that Yoda demonstrated in the original Jeff Hull Acquired Motion video was far smoother than Jeff Hull's hip thrust, but it still resulted in a far more open hip position at impact, than Ted's model. If you look at Jeff Hull and Ted Fort at impact fix in Part 1 of the Lynn Blake/Ted Fort/Jeff Hull video, you will see a clear demonstration of how much more open Jeff Hull is at impact fix, compared to Ted Fort. I am willing to bet that Yoda at impact fix looks like Jeff at impact fix, not like Ted.

[12 piece bucket]

I would like to agree with you, but I can't. Just because Yoda traces a straight plane line, doesn't mean that his hip's slide parallel to the Plane line. The delivery path waggle that Yoda demonstrated in the original Jeff Hull Acquired Motion video was far smoother than Jeff Hull's hip thrust, but it still resulted in a far more open hip position at impact, than Ted's model. If you look at Jeff Hull and Ted Fort at impact fix in Part 1 of the Lynn Blake/Ted Fort/Jeff Hull video, you will see a clear demonstration of how much more open Jeff Hull is at impact fix, compared to Ted Fort. I am willing to bet that Yoda at impact fix looks like Jeff at impact fix, not like Ted.

I PROMISE you that if Lynn Blake is tracing the Geometric Plane Line (not the Angle of Approach or Arc of Approach) his Startdown Hip Motion IS PARALLEL to the Plane Line.

You are correct that the Fix Alignments are different with regards to the Hips for Jeff vs. Ted. You will also note in the video that Jeff is using the Arc of Approach Procedure (watching the curved blur of the clubhead) as a result of the Parallel Pivot (parallel to the delivery line), his Hip Motion is more of a TURN or ROTARY. Ted on the other hand is using the pivot as a backstop. He also uses the Angle of Approach which is a cross line slide not a turn. As a result his hips will probably look "less" open at fix and impact.

Per 7-12 . . .

ALL motion – Pivot and Power Package – moves parallel to the selected Delivery Line. That is, prior to the Downstroke Turn, a Slide parallel with either the Angle of Approach or the Plane line per 2-J-3.

So at Impact Yoda could look more like Jeff because he traces the straight plane line and not the angle of approach. His hips slide is On Line not Cross Line and would like produce hips that are "more open."

[golfbulldog]

I think that I originally laboured under belief that Hitting was always - angle of approach/ cross line hip slide - and swinging was always arc of approach.

Recently , and moreso after reading this thread, i understand that hitting can be done either cross line/ angle of approach OR ( like Yoda) in-line / arc of approach.

As i see it Arc of approach is a direct equivalent to "straight plane line tracing" but both are seperate from "angle of approach"

Any time pp3 traces a straight plane line( square - square) you will naturally have an angle of approach procedure( ie. there will be an arc of clubhead blur causing inside out impact but inline/onplane motion)... you get to choose what image you want to see for yourself but the alignment is the same.

Arc of approach is purely for hitters when the target line of flight is different to the plane line? maybe and your motion is crossline?... gettting a bit vague here!

Anybody confirm this? Thanks

PS. Those old editions often explain things in a more straightforward manner... thanks bucket!

[12 piece bucket]

I think that I originally laboured under belief that Hitting was always - angle of approach/ cross line hip slide - and swinging was always arc of approach.

Recently , and moreso after reading this thread, i understand that hitting can be done either cross line/ angle of approach OR ( like Yoda) in-line / arc of approach.

As i see it Arc of approach is a direct equivalent to "straight plane line tracing" but both are seperate from "angle of approach"

Any time pp3 traces a straight plane line( square - square) you will naturally have an angle of approach procedure( ie. there will be an arc of clubhead blur causing inside out impact but inline/onplane motion)... you get to choose what image you want to see for yourself but the alignment is the same.

Arc of approach is purely for hitters when the target line of flight is different to the plane line? maybe and your motion is crossline?... gettting a bit vague here!

Anybody confirm this? Thanks

PS. Those old editions often explain things in a more straightforward manner... thanks bucket!

OK Dawg . . . This ain't as difficult as it seems at first pass.

All the Angle of Approach is is a line that connects the Point of Impact and the Low Point. All the Arc of Approach is is an ARC that connects the same two points.

Now both of these (the curved line and the straight line) are ON THE PLANE. The Angle of Approach (the Line) extends out to right field. However the Arc of Approach curves back IN after reaching Low Point . . . as a result the procedures are different. The Arc of Approach ain't for the Hitter.

You can actually approximate the Angle of Approach a couple of ways.

1. Go to Fix and get your Right Forearm On-Plane. Imagine a line on the ground running parallel to your on-plane right forearm. There is the approximation of the Angle of Approach Delivery Line.

2. Low Point is opposite your left shoulder. You can determine your impact point at Fix. Now just imagine a line connecting the dots.

HOWEVER . . . Homer Kelley said that the Hitter utilizing the Angle of Approach procedure didn't have to be precise. He found in his experiments and observation that you could have different amounts of "out to right field" and achieve the same result. So you pick how much out to right field works best for YOU and that is YOUR angle of approach.

From the player's vantage point I think Homer Kelley would say that to the player the clubhead will ALWAYS appear to pass out side the Line of Flight (or target line). The flight of the ball is in a VERTICAL plane and the golf club operates on an Inclined Plane . . . so anything positioned back of low point means that the inclined plane will be OUTSIDE of the flight of the ball.

Lay a plate on the table and take a look for yourself . . .

[rvwink]

Ted on the other hand is using the pivot as a backstop. He also uses the Angle of Approach which is a cross line slide not a turn. As a result his hips will probably look "less" open at fix and impact. "

I learned a whole lot hanging out with you on this thread this afternooon. I went back and took another look at Ted Fort's downswing waggle. What I had previously thought was a parallel hip move, actually was a parallel hip move starting from a hip position that was pointing cross line because the hips had turned in that direction on the backswing. I had previously tried to have my hips move in a crossline direction and failed to figure out how to do that properly. Now I understand from watching Ted that the way to do that is to allow my hips to turn sufficiently on the backswing to get one lined up in the right direction for your forward crossline hip slide. You help had put another piece of the puzzle in place, which I think is an important step forward for me. Thank you so much for repeatedly pointing me in the right direction and backing up your points with educational quotations from "HK's good book".

[12 piece bucket]

I learned a whole lot hanging out with you on this thread this afternooon. I went back and took another look at Ted Fort's downswing waggle. What I had previously thought was a parallel hip move, actually was a parallel hip move starting from a hip position that was pointing cross line because the hips had turned in that direction on the backswing. I had previously tried to have my hips move in a crossline direction and failed to figure out how to do that properly. Now I understand from watching Ted that the way to do that is to allow my hips to turn sufficiently on the backswing to get one lined up in the right direction for your forward crossline hip slide. You help had put another piece of the puzzle in place, which I think is an important step forward for me. Thank you so much for repeatedly pointing me in the right direction and backing up your points with educational quotations from "HK's good book".

No problem boss . . . it's ALL in that book! Just sometimes hard to find.

You are right too . . . you must put yourself in a position at the top comply with your delivery line and lag loading procedure.

You're gettin' it!