Finish swivel

[libero]

Thanks bambam,
I saw that already. Lynn says you must be prepared to swivel already when
you're at the top of backswing and that swivel is the final part of wrist rolling
on plane thru impact,
but that leads me to another question. Should I consciously roll my left wrist
at impact or should I let it happen by means of CF alone?

[Seanmx]

I am not an expert by any means but I find that the finish swivel happens automatically when I hit a full shot but when I am hitting an aquired motion or punch shot I consiously add the finish swivel after the both arms straight follow through position

[libero]

Thanks Seanmx,
of course I'm talking full swinging procedure.
My problem is that if I only think of left wrist throwout action the swivel
doesn't happen automatically and I end up with nearly an angled hinge.
On the contrary if I think (as Yoda says) already from the top to wrist roll
thru impact I don't execute any throwout action. Maybe that has something
to do with triggering and release type I'm performing,which I'm not aware of?

[Seanmx]

Perhaps practise hitting punch shots with a nice slow swing and add the finish swivel after the both arms straight postion. To me this feels like truning my left wrist onto the plane and coking my left wrist. This allows the club to move above the hands.

Maybe this might give you the feeling of the finish swivel.

Health Warning: I am neither a TGM expert or an expert golfer!

[bambam]

Thanks Seanmx,
of course I'm talking full swinging procedure.
My problem is that if I only think of left wrist throwout action the swivel
doesn't happen automatically and I end up with nearly an angled hinge.
On the contrary if I think (as Yoda says) already from the top to wrist roll
thru impact I don't execute any throwout action. Maybe that has something
to do with triggering and release type I'm performing,which I'm not aware of?

Still sounds to me like your getting the concepts of finish swivel and roll a little mixed up. You can swivel regardless which hinge action you use or whether you full roll (horizontal hinge), no roll (angled hinge), or reverse roll (vertical hinge), and it happens well after impact and the hinge action.

For a horizontal hinge, I like to think about my left knuckles and elbow. (Assuming a fairly neutral grip at fix), your knuckles will be pointing towards the ground and your left wrist will be flat until both arms straight. To keep them pointing at the ground as you pivot you'll roll your left arm. Once you can roll no more, the club has to go somewhere (swivel time)...your knuckles won't be pointing at the ground any more as your wrist keeps going and your left arm starts to fold. The elbow? My usual feel is that it stays pointing at the ground even after the left arm starts to fold...seems to help me feel swivel and hinging separately. If you overaccelerate, all this stuff can get out of whack very easily; focusing on pp4 can also help.

Watch Yoda's "Ready to Roll" and hinge action videos again and the video series with Jeff Hull (especially the one where he's doing punch shots). If you practice some punch shots with and without a finish swivel you can better isolate hinging from swivel.

[Seanmx]

Still sounds to me like your getting the concepts of finish swivel and roll a little mixed up. You can swivel regardless which hinge action you use or whether you full roll (horizontal hinge), no roll (angled hinge), or reverse roll (vertical hinge), and it happens well after impact and the hinge action.

This is a very important point, it took me a lot of pain with wierd and not no wonderful golf shots to figure this one out.

[SECGolf]

Thanks Seanmx,
of course I'm talking full swinging procedure.
My problem is that if I only think of left wrist throwout action the swivel
doesn't happen automatically and I end up with nearly an angled hinge.
On the contrary if I think (as Yoda says) already from the top to wrist roll
thru impact I don't execute any throwout action. Maybe that has something
to do with triggering and release type I'm performing,which I'm not aware of?

Consider:

What is it Kelley says...endless hours dealing with effects instead of causes?
Check right forearm angle/arc of approach. Make sure the right forearm is being driven (passively by centrifugal force) toward the plane line (not over plane line). Hands correctly driven (actively or passively), correctly down and out produce hinging and the finish swivel. If you are coming over plane, it is certainly possible that your mind will not let you perform correct actions leading up to the finish swivel, because if over plane driving continues, you'll hit the ball dead left.

[bambam]

The finish swivel happens automatically for me, but I (at least right now) do have to initiate the roll through impact. Impact shouldn't be executed as a swivel; the finish swivel happens after your hinge action. Remember the roll through impact is your hinge action / rhythm; it's your left arm, not your wrist.

[libero]

The finish swivel happens automatically for me, but I (at least right now) do have to initiate the roll through impact. Impact shouldn't be executed as a swivel; the finish swivel happens after your hinge action. Remember the roll through impact is your hinge action / rhythm; it's your left arm, not your wrist.

This is the part that helps me more.
I don't mix up roll with swivel; I just wanted to know which of the two things
I must think about when approaching impact zone. On the other hand I'm
wandering why should be swivel of any importance (since the top of backswing,as Lynn states), if it occurs well after the ball is struck? Does it have any influence on the shot or not?
Anyway my main concern is that I cannot reconcile nor connect throwout
action with rolling my left arm thru impact. Maybe I don't understand (as
English is not my language) what throw out means. As I intend it, throw out
is the uncocking of the left wrist (releasing of N. 2 accumulator) downplane.
Now,assuming this is correct,should I perform the rolling of the left forearm
simultaneaously with the uncocking of the left wrist? Looks like I can't
perform both things at the same time. The outcome is this: If I think of
throw out I get well struck shots,but they're pushes. If I think of rolling
thru impact I still get good struck shots but they're pulls.
So I ask you bambam : is throw out action part of your conscious swing
thoughts or not? If yes,how do you accomodate throw out with rolling? and
still getting a horizontal hinge?

Clue: I never slice nor hook my shots,only pushes and pulls. What would the
doctor say?
Thanks again to all of you .

[bambam]

I just wanted to know which of the two things
I must think about when approaching impact zone.

Ideally you aren't thinking about anything when approaching impact because there's not much you can do about it at that point All this stuff should be in the computer before you ever pull the trigger.

On the other hand I'm
wandering why should be swivel of any importance (since the top of backswing,as Lynn states), if it occurs well after the ball is struck? Does it have any influence on the shot or not?

I'm sure others could add to this, but knowing what alignments you want to have at each station is critical. If you don't know how to swivel or even what a swivel look like, doing it properly will be pure luck. The swivel is a natural bridge from both arms straight to finish. Any other move there will probably introduce some compensations and have negative implications on impact.

So I ask you bambam : is throw out action part of your conscious swing thoughts or not? If yes,how do you accomodate throw out with rolling? and still getting a horizontal hinge?

Where's 12 piece when we need him? He's had some good posts on throwout action recently.

Your release motion can be simultaneous (typical of a hitter) or sequenced (typical of a swinger). In a sequenced release you uncock then roll (check out the "are you ready to roll" video). You can increase/decrease overlap of those accumulator releases to increase thrust/velocity. If I had my book with me, I'd give you chapter numbers. Do a search on sequenced release and you'll get some good stuff.

Right now I am thinking about feeling the roll. The past few months, I was thinking about feeling the uncock, but that's becoming natural (shut up bucket). I hit pushes for a while during that process. If I roll before I uncock, fore left. If I don't roll, then I either get throwaway or a hinge action I didn't setup for...fore right.

SECGolf had a good reply to your question. It's possible you're trying to fix a symptom rather than a cause. If you have video or an instructor, check to make sure you aren't swaying, bobbing, or otherwise screwing up your plane. I found until Lynn and Ted helped me with some plane issues, I couldn't get my hands and the club to consistently do what I knew they were supposed to through impact.