I did not have the guts to mention the part about disregarding the shaft. Tough to substitue an imaginary line (sweetspot plane) with an actual line (the clubshaft) I built one of those thingmy-jigs with a length of yarn connecting the pressure point spots on the aft side of the grip with the sweetspot. I went a step further and spray painted the club head, the face and the shaft different colors! Without seperate identities there is nothing but chaos! Moooohahahahah! Diabolically evil laughter for the puzzled!
I gotta throw in that focusing on the shaft is playpen stuff. I do not know other teachers that identified the sweetspot plane, so perhaps Haney should be mentioned in the same breath as someelse who does not know! Clue: not Homer Kelley! A little caustic...I know!
I am aware that the key points are the PP#3 (and not the hands) and the sweetspot plane (and not the clubshaft plane). However, the angular difference and point location difference is so small that using the hands/clubshaft as a surrogate visual marker is not far off. I, therefore, find your theoretical objections somewhat invalid. You are free to draw the sweetspot plane on my images, and then demonstrate the relevant differences. I will be very surprised to find that it makes any difference to my contention that "being on plane" needs to factor-in the amount of hand dropping per unit time relative to the amount of left arm rotation per unit time, and that the entire concept of "being on plane" is an arbitrary construct.
Regarding your idea of practicing "feelings" as a replacement for accurate visual examination of "real life" swings (despite the small problem of parallax error) is an even greater mistake from my perspective - in terms of understanding the concept of "being on plane" instead of the concept of "feeling on plane".
Pay attention to Homer’s words: the base plane line of the inclined plane is usually BUT not always the line of flight.
Also pay attention to this photo also:
You are not the camera man and even you are, you might not take the right angle to let you study what is on plane or to disprove Homer study….as Tiger will not allow you to stand right behind him. BTW, can you analysis what is the degree of the camera shooting Tiger and Adam and their intended line of flight?
Homer spent 28 years and went on research, and with today technology, we can find out what the ^$%#% is “on plane” or not...and, how about the sweet spot plane line?
The below real 3d motion captured picture showed one or two things Homer stated…
And finally, question to TGM expert, is there any difference when Homer put with quotation mark or not with the words ON PLANE?
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If you cannot take the shoulder down the clubshaft plane, you must take along some other path and add compensations - now, instead of one motion to remember, you wind up with at least two!
Regardless of your plane theory, the longitundinal center of gravity (which is a line) must stay be aligned to that plane. The clubshaft is at an angle to this line so as the LCOG is the axis on which the turn and roll takes plane, the shaft will make a conical shape and will be aligned with the inclined plane only at 2 points around 360 degrees of rotation.
Now to the Hank Haney parallel plane theory. To those not acquanted with the golfing machine would think it contradictory to the TGM however they are mistaken. Homer Kelley clearly states in 7-7 - I don't have my book with me so I will have to paraphrase "other controlled procedures may be more difficult but not be deemed incorrect such as positioning the club to the plane angle intended for release". This is exactly the same as the parallel plane theory. However going into this in detail is another post however I concur with Homer Kelley on this that it is unnessesarily difficult.
I have no problem appreciating the fact that camera angle variations can distort our perception of whether the clubshaft is on plane - using HK's definition (peripheral end of the club pointing at the baseline of the inclined plane).
However, I can tell from looking at Sergio Garcia's clubshaft-hand movements in images 1,2, 3 that he is definitely not "on plane" per HK's definition (even when accepting the potential presence of camera angle perceptual problems), and the reason relates to the fact that Sergio has the individual idiosyncrasy of dropping his hands groundwards a large amount per unit time, with only a small degree of left arm rotation per unit time, during that time period of his downswing. I also cannot label Sergio's downswing action imperfect if he successfully gets his clubshaft-on-plane at the critical time point - at impact.
I also cannot label Sergio's downswing action imperfect if he successfully gets his clubshaft-on-plane at the critical time point - at impact.
You've just found the definition of "on plane". To expand a bit, it's when the right forearm and clubshaft are tracing the plane line. Prior to that, just about anything goes.
Mathew put up a nice 3D animation at one point. Pretty sure its still in the gallery.
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Bagger
1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
I have no problem appreciating the fact that camera angle variations can distort our perception of whether the clubshaft is on plane - using HK's definition (peripheral end of the club pointing at the baseline of the inclined plane).
However, I can tell from looking at Sergio Garcia's clubshaft-hand movements in images 1,2, 3 that he is definitely not "on plane" per HK's definition (even when accepting the potential presence of camera angle perceptual problems), and the reason relates to the fact that Sergio has the individual idiosyncrasy of dropping his hands groundwards a large amount per unit time, with only a small degree of left arm rotation per unit time, during that time period of his downswing. I also cannot label Sergio's downswing action imperfect if he successfully gets his clubshaft-on-plane at the critical time point - at impact.
Jeff.
Jeff,
Study Flip release in the book….one of Paul Hart’s favorite subject.
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If you cannot take the shoulder down the clubshaft plane, you must take along some other path and add compensations - now, instead of one motion to remember, you wind up with at least two!
I have no problem appreciating the fact that camera angle variations can distort our perception of whether the clubshaft is on plane - using HK's definition (peripheral end of the club pointing at the baseline of the inclined plane).
However, I can tell from looking at Sergio Garcia's clubshaft-hand movements in images 1,2, 3 that he is definitely not "on plane" per HK's definition (even when accepting the potential presence of camera angle perceptual problems), and the reason relates to the fact that Sergio has the individual idiosyncrasy of dropping his hands groundwards a large amount per unit time, with only a small degree of left arm rotation per unit time, during that time period of his downswing. I also cannot label Sergio's downswing action imperfect if he successfully gets his clubshaft-on-plane at the critical time point - at impact.
Jeff.
YES SIR! Sergio and Furyk are considered two of the best ball strikers on tour. They shift the club all over the place . . . I would say the plane matters most from impact to separation. That is why the #3 accumulator angle is sooooooooo important. You can shift the plane all over but as Homer said "Plane shifts are hazardous" . . . I would add "the closer you get to the ball."
The right forearm location and alignment to the shaft is going to change based on several factors 3 critical ones would be the delivery path, selected delivery line or arc, and plane angle. The right forearm is going to have a different look based on right shoulder location and the amount of waist bend as well. This is why a centered stroke is so important. If your head Bobs . . . then you disrupt the #3 accumulator angle and your clubface alignments will be fleeting as a result.
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Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 06-05-2008 at 09:05 AM.
Pay attention to Homer’s words: the inclined plane is usually BUT not always the line of flight.
misquoted!!!
KOC- he was talking about the BASE LINE of the incline plane- not the incline plane's angle. Where it is attached to the ground which is usually but not always the line of flight. You can have the base line open or closed to the line of flight. The incline plane is always FLAT and extends in every direction.
go to the quote and add three words to the beginning.
Hybrid Mode
