. . . I remain confused by what is meant by a "right arm throw" being a trigger for the release of PA#2 in a swinger's action.
. . . I also cannot understand how a "right arm throw" works differently (from a biomechanical perspective) when it acts as a trigger rather than a power stroke.
Jeff,
Homer Kelley himself, as both you and I have specifically noted in our previous posts, specifically said that the Right Arm Throw is:
". . . USUALLY RESTRICTED TO HITTING." [10-20-B / All Caps emphasis mine.]
Now, inspired by a Tom Tomasello video, its major promoter and your own curiousity, you have entangled yourself in a web of your own making. In your quote above, you are confused by your own postulate of the Right Arm Drive (Accumulator #1) of a Swinging Action (your Post #30 wherein you introduce the 1-2-3 Triple Barrel Swinging Stroke):
"Then his right arm throw action induces a passive release of PA#2 via centrifugal action (rather than an axehandle technique of radial force being applied against pressure point #3)."
In fact, as I've previously described, neither the Right Arm Thow Trigger nor the #1 Accumulator Right Arm Drive is compatible with Swinging.
You can attempt either, of course, or both. But . . . .
Yoda - thank you for your patience and your continuing commentary.
I am genuinely trying to accomplish two goals - i) trying to understand TGM terms correctly and ii) trying to accurately describe TT's right arm throw swing using TGM terms.
You stated something of great interest to me.
"if the golfer is Hitting ("radial acceleration / axe handle technique"), the Right Arm Throw Trigger is prelude to Right Arm Thrust through Impact and does indeed ultimate in a Right Arm Power Stroke."
You stated that a right arm throw trigger precedes a right arm power stroke. If I understand this correctly, then the right triceps muscle actively contracts and this represents the right arm throw trigger. Then the right triceps continues contracting and this thrusts the right arm through impact and this represents the right arm power stroke. In other words, the right arm power stroke implies active right triceps action as an active push force through impact - and that this represents PA#1 release. If my understanding is correct, then PA#1 release is not simply any active right triceps action, but rather an active right triceps action of sufficient force to power the right arm through impact in a hitting action. If I am still correct, then I can understand why one could not use the TGM term "release of PA#1" in describing a swinging action.
You also wrote-: " neither the Right Arm Thow Trigger nor the #1 Accumulator Right Arm Drive is compatible with Swinging."
Ok. I can understand that point.
Now I have a problem. How do I understand TT's right arm throw action and how can I accurately describe his swing action in TGM terms?
Here are two capture images of TT demonstrating his right arm throw action - from the Lee Dietrick number 2 video.
Image 1 shows TT at the top of his backswing and image 2 shows TT at impact.
I can see that his left arm is across his left pectoral area at the end-backswing (as if he has loaded PA#4) and I can see that it has opened at impact (as if he has released PA#4). What is the correct TGM description of his left arm movement? What causes his left arm to move?
Normally, PA#4 is released in a pivot-driven swing when the pivot subsides and the left arm is blasted into orbit (HK's description). However, TT does not use his pivot to drive the left arm into impact, and he also does not pull the left arm away from the left pectoral area. So, there must be some other force moving the left arm.
TT states that he "throws the right arm" down-and-out. If I accept his description of his swing action, then is it not correct to state that he is using a right arm-induced push-force to move the left arm? Also, would it not be correct in TGM terms to describe his swing action as triple barrel - as RAPF4:2:3 (where RAPF = right arm push force)?
I have shared Jeff's confusion in the past about the role of the right arm. Although I have worked with TT I am not interested in parsing his words. I know that Lynn's experience with HK qualifies him to explain the yellow book with authority. I had a badly malfunctioning right arm when I saw Lynn. I held on avoiding the motion and therefore release. I empasized PP 3 as I swung. Lynn had me load PP 2 and then drag it down accelerating the club longitudinally. Since my mind is in my hands during the swing I mainly think of PP 2. The trick for me was only to be aware of PP 3 and try to increase that pressure while maintaining a passive right arm, a soft flexible elbow joint and hopefully to experience the feel of "throw out " that had been so elusive. I wanted to feel the blood being propelled into my right and left fingers by Centrifugal force. Of course I had to maintain extensor action and try to feel I was driving my hands thru the ball at the same time Driving the hands and club thru the ball while swinging !. If I think I am doing that I have increased distance and great shots. But I am still not sure I've got it. I feel it is very confusing to understand the inter relationship of all of these feels and actions while swinging. I guess it would be easier for simpler brains just to hit it! Whats so hard about that. It must be easier. I seen a guy hit it with a bottle on his head and it doesn't even fall off. Anyway Jeff thanks for your persistance in this discussion, it's resulted in great stuff from Yoda. Oh somewhere along the line I was told that if you swung your right arm you might get pain the the right elbow.
I do not wish to add fuel to a fire that I suspect has little purpose other than to make hot air and increase greenhouse gas etc...but...
Could it be that TT was using, after an on-line hip slipe, his right triceps action pushing against PP1 and a "turned to the plane " PP3...but triceps push is working away from the target ...to a point on the plane line but about 5 yards behind the ball (ie. down and out and away from the ball??) In reality the hip slide and early right shoulder motion have started the downswing ( the bit where TT says that you have to reconnect when hands are above the shoulders)....but he uses right triceps with a turned PP3 and a very unusual aiming point??
ie. almost as though his right shoulder has a standard aiming point (so that the club actually hits the ball) ....but his "turned pp3" and pp1 have a secondary aiming point which allows his right triceps to thrust away from the normal aiming point??
Hitting being different - ie. use of right triceps with the pp3 is not turned and the straight line delivery path and thrust are directed towards ball/normal aiming point??
Just thoughts (tinkering with my dowel on a cold winters morning), not trying to rewrite the book...
Please do not print this out...the electricity required to add this post have already caused enough damage to the planet and I fear that trees/paper etc will further hasten the decline of our species...
In 4-LChapter2BB.wmv at 8:45 TT refers to, and demonstrates, a "whip like action" (with the right hand). I think thats still a 3-barrel swing - no PA#4 in that action IMO.
I am confused. You state that you perceive that TT has a triple barrel swing and yet you state that he is not using PA#4 in his swinging action. Yoda has stated that a swinger cannot use PA#1 because PA#1 is only used in a hitting action (when the right triceps is powering the clubshaft through impact). That only leaves two PAs - PA#2 and PA#3. So, how can TT have a triple barrel swing?
When you watch the section of the TT video I referenced, my observation is a pretty simple one, really. If you're using your right hand in a whipping motion you aren't using #4 PA.
The swingers Rope Handle action is preformed by the right arm - like TT said "whip it and zip it (with your right hand)". With both hands on the handle of a whip, can you blast your left arm off your chest while snapping the whip on an inclined plane? You could put your eye out that way, I'll tell you!
It's still not a #1 PA hitting action, though, so I guess it's really a 2-barrel?
Last edited by Andy R : 11-18-2008 at 02:23 PM.
Reason: Added the 2-barrel bit.
Hybrid Mode
