Let’s start with a description of intentions and feel. I am likely wrong (obviously ) .
1. I turn back and arrive at top with the following feel. BOTH feet are flat , left knee in and forward a bit (points to about where right foot point on plane line), right knee slight flex, weight on inside of foot , tension on inside of leg all the way up. My right foot feels screwed into the ground and wants to rotate clockwise but can’t.
2. My shoulders arrive almost level , facing away from target, hips have rotated back about 30 degrees.
3. I stop my arms at the point either shoulder would start to move independently, so both shoulders feel forward and the right hand is “kind of” stretching the left. (I do this a little different – EXTENSOR ACTION)
4. I can stop here and contemplate my shot- It can get tiresome but I can hold the position.
5. Hula- Hula, I slide my hips parallel to the plane line, no rotation, spine is now tilted, shoulders-arms- hands-head-feet,all stay still. King of making my body a flying wedge pointing to the target NO rotation, hips slide in direction of left rear pocket- repeat- NO rotation only slide twords target, just middle of body. creating spine tilt only
6. NOW time to commit. I can either swing or hit from this position. No need to go through all the zone #2 alignments I am preparing for but they happen now.
7. Coming down , prior to release is much the same for either. I aim my right shoulder at the plane line and I START TO UNWIND. LEFT hip turning , torso under tension, EITHER- left arm PULLING #4 or RIGHT HAND DRIVING #1 Elbow leads more for swing and pitch less for punch and hit.
8. MY RIGHT HIP , TURNING WISE, REMAINS WAY AHEAD OF MY SHOULDERS, MY ARMS DON’T PASS THE BODY UNTIL DURING THE RELEASE INTERVAL and just get in front at follow through (both arms straight)
I can do the motions in slow motion and the result is still: I can not avoid hitting the dowel??
Let me add- I am doing some things wrong because I am not getting the results expected. I try t get the alignments available in TGM. And I can get -what I call- a little "Loosy-Goosy" ( a rubber man)and I am sure that does not help but power comes up through the hips and I need to keep the power and loose the motion- make sense?? How do I do that??
The Bear
Last edited by HungryBear : 04-15-2010 at 09:22 AM.
V.J's dowel drill is good for pointing out the extent of the problem but there may be a better drill to give you a solution.
Ben Doyle's drill: Cut a length of dowel so it can be used as a stick seat. Put the dowel in place and learn to swing the club and Pivot so that the dowel doesn't fall away from your butt until follow-through. Don't put a lot of weight on the dowel because it'll defeat the purpose.
You won't hit the dowel in V.J.'s drill if you learn to pivot using Ben Doyles Drill.
Bucket uses a drill involving a car battery and jumper cables but it's been banned in most States and Canada.
V.J's dowel drill is good for pointing out the extent of the problem but there may be a better drill to give you a solution.
Ben Doyle's drill: Cut a length of dowel so it can be used as a stick seat. Put the dowel in place and learn to swing the club and Pivot so that the dowel doesn't fall away from your butt until follow-through. Don't put a lot of weight on the dowel because it'll defeat the purpose.
You won't hit the dowel in V.J.'s drill if you learn to pivot using Ben Doyles Drill.
Bucket uses a drill involving a car battery and jumper cables but it's been banned in most States and Canada.
Thank you- I think?
The first things that came to mind were:
Snipe hunt
and
Something about my goat.
I will shorten my Hip shift first- I may even prefer the battery experiment to sitting on Ben's short dowel.
I do ralize this may be an honest drill and I am sorry for seeing any humor in an honest attempt to help.
V.J's dowel drill is good for pointing out the extent of the problem but there may be a better drill to give you a solution.
Ben Doyle's drill: Cut a length of dowel so it can be used as a stick seat. Put the dowel in place and learn to swing the club and Pivot so that the dowel doesn't fall away from your butt until follow-through. Don't put a lot of weight on the dowel because it'll defeat the purpose.
You won't hit the dowel in V.J.'s drill if you learn to pivot using Ben Doyles Drill.
Bucket uses a drill involving a car battery and jumper cables but it's been banned in most States and Canada.
Seen Benny's drill . . . . D is fo' reel . . . .
You're good on my drill North of the Mason Dixon . . . never been to the state of Canada before . . . so probably OK there too . . . .
I was actually born in Dixie, in the province of Virginia. Dad was working down there for a bit. I told Lynn that once and he was like "Virginia? Thats just about as north as you can get and still be in Dixie".
Elvis' American Trilogy gets me all teary eye'd to this day. Seriously.
This might be a good time to discuss Homer's impact being "comparatively squared away". Surely he saw Hogan's two cheeks in photographs. Phil Mick and Greg Norman dont two cheek it. It can be a sign of Thrusting for some folks or a rate of overtaking thing for a swinger Id imagine.
I think you should spin the Hips and then let em coast. So they do some initial work some pulling and then they subside into mere motion prior to the Shoulders overtaking them. Consider for a moment the 6-m-1 "Downstroke Sequence". There is no mention of degree of leading , Hips vs Shoulders. Only that they lead. It wouldnt be labelled a "Sequence" if the Hips were meant to keep working, pulling forever Im thinking. Homer talked about the Swinger "spinning the fly wheel". Having spun a fly wheel recently , its a spin it and let er go thing, not a continuous spinning. How 'bout Hogans' "quick initial hip acceleration"? Homer said it took his Hands from End to Top. Note he said "initial" as opposed to constant or continuous or something.
Some folks advocate a second firing of the Hips. Kinda weird and not flywheel like. Some advocate Pivot braking , less weird to my mind, but not a flywheel thing either.
How do baseball pitchers turn? Do they plant their lead foot , and then turn their whole body or do they spin their hips?
Why did Homer say "comparatively squared away"? Not that I dont like it or anything, being comparatively squared away at impact, myself
O.B,
Great Post. I love the Term “Comparatively Squared Away”.
From the Top of the Backstroke to Impact, Hogans shoulders Rotated 90 degrees while his Hips Rotated 75 degrees. Did his Hip Turn slow down allowing his shoulders to catch up? or Did His Right Shoulder accelerate, thus gaining on his Hips?
The following Vapid Post tries to answer this question:
The Farther the Right Shoulder is Driven Down-plane before Release (the left Shoulder moves correspondingly Up-Plane), the greater the Right Elbow Bend at Release. The Greater the Right Elbow Bend at Release, the Farther Forward the Hands can be at Impact and reach the Line-of-sight to the ball without the risk of Running-Out-Of-Right-Arm at Impact.
If the Left Shoulder leaves the Plane while the Right Shoulder is moving Down-plane, then the “off the Plane” rotation will cause the Player to Bend the Plane-Line.
Notice in the BH illustration that while both the Right and Left shoulders rotate On-Plane, there is 0 degree horizontal rotation. The Shoulders have rotated open 45 degrees to the Target, while the Hips are open 30 Horizontal degrees to the Target. I think the Hips still lead and drive the Right Shoulder through the Impact Interval. BH's hips are turned 45 degrees at the Top of his Backstroke while his shoulders are turned 90 degrees. So, one Question is: Did his Hips slow, allowing his right shoulder to catch-up? Or, did Hogans Right Shoulder Accelerate Down-plane? If his Right Should accelerated, then the thrust applied to them from the Top of the swing remained constant during the Downstroke sequence. In other words, his rate of Hip turn wouldn't slow down, but rather speed up. This is possible because the Hips Slide (Slower rate of rotation), then Turn (sharper rate of rotation).
If the Right Shoulder is Driven Down-Plane by Hip Action, then slowing or stopping Hip Action prevents Right Shoulder acceleration.
Holding a Ball in your hand out the window of a car traveling 50 MPH, then slamming on the brakes, and then throwing the ball, isn't "Launching Pad" or "Flywheel Spinning". Even Thrust is needed for the Right shoulder to accelerate into the Release Interval, which requires the Hip Turn to increase speed. Hip speed is increased by changing its rate of Turn, not by using muscular effort to fling the Hips toward the Target.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________
O.B. Ya know, if you were born in the US, then you may qualify for our new National Health Care system. That's the Ultimate Choice. You can choose to wait in line in Canada or wait in line in the USA.
In the Shells WWOG lesson, Hogan demonstrates what we'd term a Startdown Waggle and talks about how its the "movement of the lower body", the "knees and hips", "not the shoulders". And goes on to take the club all the way down to Release with an apparent Turning motion.
In his slow motion drills, The Coleman tape for instance he shows a similar lower body turn with no shoulder action or independent movement even in Startdown and Downswing and does it in such a manner that the clubshaft gets really stuck behind him and off plane.
Im wondering if this is a slight exaggeration, a feel maybe but not a real? What do you guys think?
Although he did get the club laid off a tad in transition sometimes when actually swinging, Im thinking that he got the sequence , the next component above the Hips the Shoulders going earlier than Release, Actively (Shoulder Throw) or otherwise. This would be consistent with his chain action theory wouldnt it?
Homer made a serious study of this motion. He thought Hogan was the "Ideal" in terms of Pivot and CF. He thought Hogan spun the fly wheel and then having set the whole thing in motion had no choice but to just let er go...........that he could fall asleep and still end up hitting the ball.
An early , over the top firing of the Shoulders is a 6-M-1 wrecker for sure............but what about an effort to turn the Hips to pull the Shoulders deep into the swing? Is that a Sequence wrecker too? Dont the Hips have to give way to the next component, the Shoulders if your using 6-M-1? After the quick initial acceleration is it even possible to maintain the Hips rate of turning, acceleration? If no then the Shoulders are coming on stream whether your spinning the Hips hard or not. The force, in its ground up 6-M-1 Downswing Sequence pathway has passed from Hips to Shoulder to Arms to Hands to clubhead already by impact .............so what is the continued effort to make the Hips pull the Shoulders accomplishing? And even if you could maintain the Hips rate of turning to pull the Shoulders all the way down to Impact would that not mean that you have yet to Release? Where is the clubface then? You'd making contact with all the Power Accumulators fully loaded. What if they are the same at Separation?
The Hips for some guys may be very open at impact but this doesnt mean they are still pulling the Shoulders to my mind. Its a residual. They did have a running start after all being less turned at Top than the Shoulders. Heck you could turn the Hips and Shoulders together as a unit from Top and arrive at Impact with the Hips relatively open and having had zero hip pull.
Its a co ordinated sequence. Like whip cracking or towel snapping or whatever. You have to let the force pass on to the next component. The Hips go and then slow, they work and then coast. We dont consciously slow them they just do it on their own. They cant maintain the pull, so the Shoulders go no matter what. No second firing , no constant spinning required , no braking. Although a firm left side and balance are alway welcome.
After the Shoulders go the Left Arm separates, #4 fires. Whether your Shoulders are still moving forward or not. Same deal. Its a multi levered sequence.
Making "High School hip action" an exaggerated , sequence and balance damaging .....affectation. Unless of course the co-eds like it which would be another consideration all together.
I have super 8 film of my swing when i was about 15 or so back in the seventies ........showed it to TEd recently ............man its funny. Ted wondered how I was able to see the ball through all that hair. My back aches just looking at that reverse C swing today.
The Hips for some guys may be very open at impact but this doesnt mean they are still pulling the Shoulders to my mind. Its a residual. They did have a running start after all being less turned at Top than the Shoulders. Heck you could turn the Hips and Shoulders together as a unit from Top and arrive at Impact with the Hips relatively open and having had zero hip pull.
I agree with that. But the Right Shoulder Acceleration Interval is lengthened by the amount of Hip Rotation.
Hybrid Mode
