For both hitting and swinging the right forearm controls the backswing and downswing per 7-3. Please re-read Tomasello's comment...the right forearm is in control.
DG
Control doesn't equate to "work". In a "Hands controlled Pivot", the Pivot is doing the "work"
Why can't the Pivot be doing the work in a forearm controlled swing?
Your right it does at release it supplies the outward force from the shoulder turn per 2-N-1 (as Tommy said it closes the door) but what started the downswing is the uncocking action of the right forearm not the lower body (See the end of 7-3). Also, reference the Lee Dietrick video, I believe it's the number #2 video. The right forearm supplies the up and down force to the swing....shoulder turn supplies the inward action on the backswing and outward force on the downswing...that's why you hear Mark Evershed talk about hitting down with the right arm on the downswing.
I'm trying to reconcile it all...Tomasello to Mark Evershed to Homer and TGM.
DG
Yes, TT demonstrates the Right Forearm Pickup and then just appears to reverse that action for the downswing from about 2:20 - 3:25.
The right forearm pickup is nothing more than bending the right arm; and the reverse procedure is nothing more than straigtening the right arm. Now, the right arm can unbend one of two ways -- passively, through the throw-out action of a swinging procedure or actively through use of the muscles. I contend this can only be done by the tricep muscle, as the right forearm has no musculature that can actively cause the right arm to straighten.
So when you say that the right forearm is in control, you appear to be saying that the right forearm is causing, activley powering both the pick up and straigtening of the right arm, and I don't think that is anatomically correct. I believe that is done by the bicep and tricep.
Yes, TT demonstrates the Right Forearm Pickup and then just appears to reverse that action for the downswing from about 2:20 - 3:25.
The right forearm pickup is nothing more than bending the right arm; and the reverse procedure is nothing more than straigtening the right arm. Now, the right arm can unbend one of two ways -- passively, through the throw-out action of a swinging procedure or actively through use of the muscles. I contend this can only be done by the tricep muscle, as the right forearm has no musculature that can actively cause the right arm to straighten.
So when you say that the right forearm is in control, you appear to be saying that the right forearm is causing, activley powering both the pick up and straigtening of the right arm, and I don't think that is anatomically correct. I believe that is done by the bicep and tricep.
Bob, you have the Evershed book...just read the educated hands section. Tommy is not starting the downswing with the hips...he's driving the right forearm from the top and allowing the right elbow to uncock naturally, he's not holding back at all (it's one smooth driving motion for the top the down comes from the rightforearm, the out comes from the shoulders). I would suggest re-reading the Tomasello golf illustrated interview at this point. At one point in my lesson, Tommy says in so many words, what brought you up brings you down...meaning the right forearm. The Magic of the Right Forearm. I use the right forearm on every shot...when I tried to use direct manipulation of the tricep muscle, in a weeks time, I lost the lag. Went back to using the right forearm and instantly the sweet feeling of lag returned. It was like Magic...hence the name, the Magic of the Right Forearm...I wouldn't be surprised Homer discovered the same thing. I would also say that Homer found it through experimentation versus reading a book on biomechanics!
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 09-17-2006 at 07:52 PM.
I believe it will become more clear as I transcribe more of the Tomasello instruction. Bob, you have the Evershed book...just read the educated hands section. Have you watched the Lee Dietrick video?
DG
Okay - I re-read the Quiet Body and Educated Hands sections of Evershed and I think I got it. It really is more or less the same move you would use to hit the topspin forehand shot with a tennis racquet, except its on an inclined plane. It's the Quiet Body and Educated Hands drills.
DG,
did you know that Evershed doesn't believe that the left wrist uncocks fully after impact? He believes that it only gets back to level at impact and then quickly recocks.
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf
Your right it does at release it supplies the outward force from the shoulder turn per 2-N-1 (as Tommy said it closes the door) but what started the downswing is the uncocking action of the right forearm not the lower body (See the end of 7-3). Also, reference the Lee Dietrick video, I believe it's the number #2 video. The right forearm supplies the up and down force to the swing....shoulder turn supplies the inward action on the backswing and outward force on the downswing...that's why you hear Mark Evershed talk about hitting down with the right arm on the downswing.
I'm trying to reconcile it all...Tomasello to Mark Evershed to Homer and TGM.
I have experiemented with my normal swing and tomasello's "pattern" the last few times at the range.
Both of the patterns are equally accurate and powerful. Basically all i'm doing is replacing my power from the pivot and replacing it in my right forearm.
My pattern = more pivot, passive right arm/forearm
Tomasello's pattern = less pivot, more right arm/forearm
For me, i like my pattern better.
__________________
I'm not a TGM or PGA certified Pro, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night
You can not mix the patterns at the range in a limited fashion...it takes a committment over a long period of time to the see the real benefits of a pattern...I believe any of you who have been with TGM long enough and have tried to develop the stroke pattern/component approach...in most cases it can take years to develop a pattern and a lifetime of keeping the pattern in check.
...of course humans stick to what their use to....hmmmmm it's only human.
The comment on less pivot and more right forearm....what is that.
It takes time to develop the muscles of the right forearm and arm...the hips don't provide power...they maintain speed.
DG
DG
I don't understand your post. I said that both patterns are equally as accurate and powerful for me. Which means with both of the patterns i was producing the same speed and the same impact alignments. Why would i need a "long committment" to see the benefits when I already have? I have experimented and swung (a little incorrectly) with the Tomasello pattern fora while. Recently through a post of yours i noticed i did something wrong. After this change it allowed me to correctly do the pattern as Tommy would want and then i saw the results which were just as good as my pattern.
If the pattern that i worked on hard for almost a year now works just as good as Tommy's way, why would i change to a whole new pattern instead of just constantly maintaining my own just like i'm sure you do yours?
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My comment on less/more pivt and less/more right arm is in relation to the two distinct patterns.
In the pattern i currently use, i use a very strong pivot motion to carry the power package into impact and i try to create (through pivot thrust as i call it or pivot power, pivot speed whatever anyone wants) as much CF to create throwout action and speed. To do this you have to have very passive and inert arms and "spin the flywheel," meaning the right shoulder downplane.
In Tomasello's pattern the body is much more quiet and the right arm/forearm is much more active. I am simply replacing the amount of 'pivot thrust' (as i call it) with the un-cocking motion of the right arm (magic of the right forearm). When done correctly i get the same type of power and accuracy, i'm simply producing my alignments and "force" or "speed" in a different manner.
Not necessarily better, it's just different and works better for me and i see no reason to change my entire pattern for the same results.
TGM is all about finding the pattern that works for you and i have found that. So i still tinker and wanted to give the Tomasello pattern a significant try to determine the results. It is a valid pattern that works wonderful, i just don't choose to use it because i already have a pattern for me.
__________________
I'm not a TGM or PGA certified Pro, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night
"Extensor Action gives an indispensable control to all Strokes". Homer Kelley 6-B-1-D.
DG
It gives structure.
"This stretches but does not move the Left Arm and produces a structural rigidity that is a strong deterrent to collapse under the stress of Acceleration and Impact." Homer Kelley per 6-B-1-D (my old screen name).
TT give the impression that the right arm piston action is Extension Action or at the very least failed to seperate the two forces- a in-line pull (stretch) on the left arm and the right arm push (drive) on the left arm. Two different things.
I have watched the series of clips several times. A fine introduction to TGM.
For introductions.....After studying with Tommy in 1984. Jodie Mudd goes from 250 to 35 the on PGA tour money list for that year. And amateurs go from double digit handicaps to scratch in months. Please, more introductions like that...
For _hits and giggles, someone please explain away the first sentence of 6-B-1-D.
DG
I'm sure Jodie was very talented and swung his own club for each shot.
hits and giggles? btw- I thought you stopped replying to my questions.
If the right arm was to release itself from the left arm, it would straighten. That is because it pulls linear doesn't push in an arc.
Even on the old forums DG (RR), it was always about YOU and TOM. In these tapes, and I like them- the tapes that is- Tom could have explained a few things better.
I'm sure students hit the ball better- its TGM, right? Or is it TTGM?
Hybrid Mode
