Zone #1 questions

[BerntR]

Preface: Often, when something in the stroke hasn't been properly aligned, I have later discovered after a while that the knee bend and the (primary) hip bend has a hughe impact on all the alignments. And when these pieces fall in place it just seems so much easier to do basically any shot.

But this is a matter I haven't found much precise info about anywhere, including the yellow book. And sometimes I wonder: Why do we bend the hip? To reach down to the ball? To achieve a specific flat shoulder turn plane? But the thing I have been really wondering about is this: If some hip turn is good - why isn't more better? (I tend to overdo the thing)

Same thing with knee bend. Why isn't more better? In any other sport where the athlet was preparing for an athletic move to the left it is highly likely that (s)he would apply more knee bend. On the other hand - if more isn't better - why isn't less better?

What are precise purposes of knee bend and hip bend?

Right now I believe something can be found in the requirements of the right hand flying wedge and the elbow plane. Both will influence how high the right elbow is at address & impact. The knee bend will in addition influence how much hip slide can be produced. And the hip slide will influence location of right shoulder and right elbow at impact. Together with hip height (knee bend) and hip tilt.

But this is just a start at best. I know these two parameters - knee bend and hip bend - are very important to my own golf stroke. And I know that different Zone #1 alignments can produce uncompensated strokes. But I have experienced time and again that root cause of wild strokes and compensations have been in the stance. So I am also convinced that there are some serious noninterchangibles in this territory.

I will appreciate any input on this matter.

[12 piece bucket]

Preface: Often, when something in the stroke hasn't been properly aligned, I have later discovered after a while that the knee bend and the (primary) hip bend has a hughe impact on all the alignments. And when these pieces fall in place it just seems so much easier to do basically any shot.

But this is a matter I haven't found much precise info about anywhere, including the yellow book. And sometimes I wonder: Why do we bend the hip? To reach down to the ball? To achieve a specific flat shoulder turn plane? But the thing I have been really wondering about is this: If some hip turn is good - why isn't more better? (I tend to overdo the thing)

Same thing with knee bend. Why isn't more better? In any other sport where the athlet was preparing for an athletic move to the left it is highly likely that (s)he would apply more knee bend. On the other hand - if more isn't better - why isn't less better?

What are precise purposes of knee bend and hip bend?

Right now I believe something can be found in the requirements of the right hand flying wedge and the elbow plane. Both will influence how high the right elbow is at address & impact. The knee bend will in addition influence how much hip slide can be produced. And the hip slide will influence location of right shoulder and right elbow at impact. Together with hip height (knee bend) and hip tilt.

But this is just a start at best. I know these two parameters - knee bend and hip bend - are very important to my own golf stroke. And I know that different Zone #1 alignments can produce uncompensated strokes. But I have experienced time and again that root cause of wild strokes and compensations have been in the stance. So I am also convinced that there are some serious noninterchangibles in this territory.

I will appreciate any input on this matter.

These are good questions . . . and infact there are alignments in the pivot. For example, to your question about knee bend . . . it's not just knee bend but it's also how much you STRAIGHTEN then knee. So let's say that the shoulder turn component you've selected (or maybe it's just what you do) is Flat. That goes with a more "flexed" right knee. Keeping the right knee bent is going to make your hip turn "less slanted" as well . . which in turn is going to allow you to make a flatter shoulder turn. And with that flat shoulder turn you're going to require MORE of a right forearm pick up too to elevate the club back UP and in. If you don't bend the elbow you'll end up with way too much back and in and not enough UP. The components are going to work better with "steeper" planes ala TSP and more linear hand paths and delivery lines to IMO.

So you want to first use the catalog of components to figure out WHAT YOU ARE DOING NOW . . .as a baseline. Then you may want to see if there are components that you could introduce to tighten up your motion. Another good place to start is what kind of shot shape do you generally hit and what are your misses. Is there a pattern there? For example let's say you hit a slice . . . well what kinda slice is it? Push slice or pull slice? If pull slice the we know that the face is open to the path. So to get the ball to fly straight or curve to the left you need to get your clubhead path more "OUT" to the right of the face. So maybe you need to get your hands "deeper" so they don't get out over the plane as fast. Well . . . that means maybe you should introduce more standard knee action and more hip turn. So to make a long post longer . . . look at your motion . . . get a baseline on what you are doing. Look at the ball flight . . what's it doing. What do you attack . . . what components could help in your path to improve things. Homer gave you the pieces but didn't really put them together for you . . . that's up to you to put the components together in a fashion that works for you.

[BerntR]

Thanks for the reply 12 piece,

Maybe it's time to shoot some video.

[Yoda]

Maybe it's time to shoot some video.

Let's do it, BerntR. And if you need help posting it, please PM Bambam. Together, we can make this happen!

P.S. Would you please explain your term "Hip Bend"? Since there is no such animal in TGM, my guess is you are referring to Homer Kelley's 'Waist Bend' (but find the term objectionable).

[BerntR]

Thank you for the kind invitation Yoda. I'll probably take the bait

It is waist bend I am talking about. I don't speak mother tongue TGM. That's all. But it is a fascinating language so I'm working on it.

The power supply for the video camera seems to be located in some container in the south-western part of Norway. So I had to purchase a replacement kit on ebay. If the winter here in Houston is over now, maybe I'll find time to shoot some strokes this week.

[Yoda]

Thank you for the kind invitation Yoda. I'll probably take the bait

It is waist bend I am talking about. I don't speak mother tongue TGM. That's all. But it is a fascinating language so I'm working on it.

The power supply for the video camera seems to be located in some container in the south-western part of Norway. So I had to purchase a replacement kit on ebay. If the winter here in Houston is over now, maybe I'll find time to shoot some strokes this week.

Great, Bernt. See you in the movies!

[slicer mcgolf]

... Homer gave you the pieces but didn't really put them together for you . . . that's up to you to put the components together in a fashion that works for you.

Did anyone put some components together?

I know there could be hundreds of different patterns, but I'm wondering if there is anything deep in this forum... or somewhere else.

[O.B.Left]

Nice post Buck. Bernt, I too find that faulty address alignments can ruin an otherwise good motion. Too much bend in the knees and waist being my bad habit. I love the glossaries definition of the Pivot.......dont have my book with me or I'd write it all out....... I now view the main job of the pivot in terms of alignments is to get the right arm on plane at impact.

In my opinion the knees are not in the business of lowering anything but rather serve as anchors and/or shock absorbers. The correct amount of knee bend, for me anyways, being the amount just before the hips are lowered towards to the ground. Just a little bend. The bend at the waist on the hand lowers the left shoulder and the primary lever down to the ball. With a level left wrist and the right arm on plane to me it sort of feels like a lowering of the primary lever to a hovered, relaxed , hanging position. As if the Power Package was in a sort of homeostatic state.

But this is just me though. Some might say otherwise, that a truly relaxed and hanging Power Package would have the left wrist fully uncocked. But for me, given my tendency towards too much bend in the knees and waist and a low set of hands with some tension at the #3 angle, it seems to be a good notion. Didnt Hogan have a thing where he relaxed his wrists and let the hands droop like he was firing a pistol into the ground as part of his address procedure?