Stationary Head - To be or not to be

[comdpa]

At the considerable risk of sounding like a broken record, I suggest the following:

1. Set your Head (at Fix) where you want it to be at Impact.

2. Do your dead-level best during the Stroke to keep it there.

If your Head moves...

It moves.

If you can reduce that movement, please...

Do it.

If you cannot...

Then learn to live with it.

And work even harder on your Short Game.

"If golfer have 5 mistakes in motion, golfer better have 5 compensations that golfer execute all time at same time." - Ancient Wisdom

[birdie_man]

Lynn: Cool that you have that easygoing approach when your preferences are not met. My POV tho is that I just don't know that a little head movement is worth worrying about in the first place. (or even a bad thing at all)

Just my POV.

comdpa: You say mistakes....I say "mistakes."

[Daryl]

Lynn: Cool that you have that easygoing approach when your preferences are not met. My POV tho is that I just don't know that a little head movement is worth worrying about in the first place. (or even a bad thing at all)

Just my POV.

comdpa: You say mistakes....I say "mistakes."

I would like to know what a 'little head movement' amounts to in inches?

[Amen Corner]

I would like to know what a 'little head movement' amounts to in inches?

The smallest amount possible for you, whatever that would be.

This thread turned out to be a hot potato. I choose to start it under 7th edition changes and the reason was the additional text under 2H

: "The important thing is that the true Swing Center for ALL COMPONENTS is around a Hinge Pin with one end at the top of the Stationay Head and the other in the ground, precisely between the feet, with no regard for Body Location or Position at any time".

When I translate the underlined, you can setup with the head on different places. Lynn recommends to start from impact fix and let it stay there which sounds very sound/healthy. But thats an option, you could have it whereever you want but then leave it there and see what result you will get.

The debate about the SH will continue and trust me, there will always be different opinions on it. Try and Choose whats best for you.

Now, what I would like to know is why Mr.Kelley preferred the SH. I tried a few posts ago. Why has this additional text been put in?

If I translate it, then the pin will go right through the head, which means that it can rotate ( ala Nicklaus), as in 1L#2, which will make it easier to fulfill 1L#1, and as I posted earlier, you can always adjust your setup to obtain the SH.

[rwh]

There has been an additional text to the second paragraph on
2-H in the 7th edition.

"The important thing is that the true Swing Center for ALL COMPONENTS is around a Hinge Pin with one end at the top of the Stationay Head and the other in the ground, precisely between the feet, with no regard for Body Location or Position at any time"

How do you read this? What does it mean for you?
What is your interpritation(?) of it? (color added by rwh)

Some observations:

1. It is possible for the top of the Swing Center Hinge Pin to be located anywhere -- extreme left, extreme right, extreme forward, extreme back, and anywhere in between -- with the bottom of the hinge pin precisely between the feet. Therefore, the concept of the Swing Center Hinge Pin seeks only a stationary head but does not mandate that the head be in any particular location.

2. Since the head can be located anywhere, the Swing Center Hinge Pin is neither the spine nor any other actual body part. The Swing Center Hinge Pin is imaginary - a concept.

3. The concept of a Swing Center Hinge Pin must allow for the actual anatomical structure, physical capacity and psychological needs of the individual executing the movement.

[Yoda]

1. It is possible for the top of the Swing Center Hinge Pin to be located anywhere -- extreme left, extreme right, extreme forward, extreme back, and anywhere in between -- with the bottom of the hinge pin precisely between the feet. Therefore, the concept of the Swing Center Hinge Pin seeks only a stationary head but does not mandate that the head be in any particular location.

I agree (and have stated several times in posts) that it is not mandatory for the player to locate the Head -- either at Address or at Impact -- "precisely between the feet" in order to establish a Pivot Center. However, having located the Head (and thus establishing the Pivot Center), it is important that its position be maintained.

Personally, I visualize the Pivot Center Hinge Pin as being perpendicular to the ground, regardless of Head position. Thus, the Hinge Pin would fall "precisely between the feet" only if the Head were so located.

[birdie_man]

I would like to know what a 'little head movement' amounts to in inches?

2 or 3. (DUE to rotating around "base of neck" Pivot Center)

And yes I believe it is a fairly distinct difference. (I'm not neccessarily saying performance-wise...but prolly that too for a good amount of people)

Starting location at Address I think can (and IMHO prolly should) vary too.

[nuke99]

Personally,

As a small apprentice point of view.

There are 2 points i like to say.

1)Stationary head of course is the Uncompensated Version of the pivot, As long as the width caused by the bent right wrist, shoulder height position during impact head position is constant, its a more or less "perfect" impact.

2) I feel, the head a shy behind the center , swivels, and thus slight bobbing is more biomechanical and comfort, ie the head bending forward instead of proudly straight, bend forward spine, other things like trying to coil the torso, the concious or unconcious need to feel positive weight and momentum transfer, such and such, either can be merely a matter of what you want to feel. Most of this type of head position will in evitably need to bob slightly to the correct impact alignments for a solid impact, or make other compensation. But it does not mean its wrong. alot of great legends does that.

And I think its an acceptable preference and compensation. though I feel its still compensating. you do not need to do that as the less movement in golf is efficiency.

Just my tiny 2 cents.

[birdie_man]

1)Stationary head of course is the Uncompensated Version of the pivot, As long as the width caused by the bent right wrist, shoulder height position during impact head position is constant, its a more or less "perfect" impact.

This of course is the Golfing Machine answer. I think there is more to it tho.

We've been through this one already BTW.

other things like trying to coil the torso, the concious or unconcious need to feel positive weight and momentum transfer, such and such, either can be merely a matter of what you want to feel. Most of this type of head position will in evitably need to bob slightly to the correct impact alignments for a solid impact, or make other compensation. But it does not mean its wrong. alot of great legends does that.

Coolcool. I don't think it's just there to accomodate a feel I want to have in my stroke tho.

Assuming we're on the same page, we're talkin about a few inches of head movement here. (if we're still talking about a Centered motion..."base of neck" Center)

I'm usually not aware of or concerned about any head movement unless I stop and really try to monitor it.

So it really feels like nothing to me (err at least not like you describe it or for those reasons)...

If anything, I find it feels athletic. (and I mean the pivot that RESULTS in the head moving...the body position)

And I think its an acceptable preference and compensation. though I feel its still compensating. you do not need to do that as the less movement in golf is efficiency.

Coolcool. You can think what you want.

I don't think it's that simple tho as I've been saying all along.

You say compensation...I say "compensation."

[mrodock]

Assuming we're on the same page, we're talkin about a few inches of head movement here. (if we're still talking about a Centered motion..."base of neck" Center)

It really feels like nothing to me (err at least not like that)...

A few inches is the difference between the sweet spot and a shank or even whiff. The difference between compression of the ball and hitting behind the ball. Inches are significant in the golf swing.

That said I think Jim Hardy was onto something when he said those that swing their arms upright (i.e. Watson) would benefit from some weight shift and consequent lateral head movement in the backswing (to give the arms enough time to swing down in the downswing) and those that swing their arms flatter (i.e. Hogan) should keep their weight centered and the head should not move.

As an aside I believe a really upright arm swing plane is less than ideal, but certainly works great for some.

Matt