In reading this thread to learn more about TGM, I noted that Yoda stated in post #53, #56 and #61 that the lower spine moves away from the target at the startup of the backstroke. Surely that is wrong.
Doesn't the lower lumbar spine move towards the target as the golfer pivots over the right femoral head in the backswing?
Here is a diagram showing the movement of the right femoral head in the backswing pivot action - it moves backwards and leftwards. That causes the lumbar spine to move slightly leftwards, although the face-orientation of the lumbar spine becomes increasingly rightwards.
In reading this thread to learn more about TGM, I noted that Yoda stated in post #53, #56 and #61 that the lower spine moves away from the target at the startup of the backstroke. Surely that is wrong.
Doesn't the lower lumbar spine move towards the target as the golfer pivots over the right femoral head in the backswing?
Here is a diagram showing the movement of the right femoral head in the backswing pivot action - it moves backwards and leftwards. That causes the lumbar spine to move slightly leftwards, although the face-orientation of the lumbar spine becomes increasingly rightwards.
Jeff.
It depends on the type of Hip Turn. If you agree with Homer and believe that there should be a Hip Slide or shifting of weight prior to the Hip Turn (10-14-B) and that there's a Stationary Head, then the base of the spine would be moving away from the target in Start Up.
The diagram that you've used would assume no weight shift and a single axis of rotation. (10-14-C)
Thanks for the reply. Do you know which PGA tour golfers allow their pelvis to slide to the right during the backswing. It is my impression that most PGA tour golfers pivot-rotate around a slightly flexed right knee and don't allow the pelvis to slide to the right. Some, like Ben Hogan, even push their pelvis left-laterally in the late backswing, causing even more left-shift of the lumbar spine, as the following photo series demonstrates.
Thanks for the reply. Do you know which PGA tour golfers allow their pelvis to slide to the right during the backswing. It is my impression that most PGA tour golfers pivot-rotate around a slightly flexed right knee and don't allow the pelvis to slide to the right. Some, like Ben Hogan, even push their pelvis left-laterally in the late backswing, causing even more left-shift of the lumbar spine, as the following photo series demonstrates.
Jeff.
I appreciate the 3-D of the hips that you posted. But, we are unable to see a 3-D picture of Hogan's hips.
I always have questions about 2-D pictures. Do we know that the camera was on a tripod or was it held? Do we know the distance from camera to golfer? Do we know the wind conditions and the trajectory on which the golfer wanted the ball to travel? Do we know the shot pattern required for the given hole? Do we know that the subjects in the background are standing perfectly still? In making so many assumptions about a couple of pictures, any hypothesis would have a hard time holding water.
It does look like his left hip relative to his fellow competitor has moved to the right, in the second picture. And, that could be attributable to many things.
In reading this thread to learn more about TGM, I noted that Yoda stated in post #53, #56 and #61 that the lower spine moves away from the target at the startup of the backstroke. Surely that is wrong.
Doesn't the lower lumbar spine move towards the target as the golfer pivots over the right femoral head in the backswing?
Jeff,
Your detailed work is the kind of thing that makes our site work. Thanks!
In reply, I'm sure hg can add the appropriate lines for us, but for now, let's just 'eyeball' Frame 3 of the Hogan sequence. Do you see -- as I do -- the belt-line tilited upwards? And the 'line' of his spine -- up the MIDDLE of his back -- tilted AWAY from the target (as opposed to its vertical position in Frame 1)?
Yoda - if you are arguing that the general tilt of the lumbar spine is towards the right (away from the target) then I agree with you 100%. That's my mental picture of what happens to the human spine during the backswing pivot action - the junction of the lumbar spine and pelvic sacrum moves slightly leftwards as the right buttocks moves backwards/leftwards, but the frontal spine orientation becomes rightwards oriented so that the entire spine develops a rightwards tilt away from the target.
Here is a photo image of Ben Hogan at the end-backswing position - from the front view. He has a reverse-K look, because although his right thigh is oriented to the left, his spine and upper torso is oriented to the right due to the increased rightwards tilt of the spine that occurs secondary to the movement of the right buttocks leftwards/backwards (that produces a reorientation of the spine to the right).
Yoda - if you are arguing that the general tilt of the lumbar spine is towards the right (away from the target) then I agree with you 100%. That's my mental picture of what happens to the human spine during the backswing pivot action - the junction of the lumbar spine and pelvic sacrum moves slightly leftwards as the right buttocks moves backwards/leftwards, but the frontal spine orientation becomes rightwards oriented so that the entire spine develops a rightwards tilt away from the target.
Here is a photo image of Ben Hogan at the end-backswing position - from the front view. He has a reverse-K look, because although his right thigh is oriented to the left, his spine and upper torso is oriented to the right due to the increased rightwards tilt of the spine that occurs secondary to the movement of the right buttocks leftwards/backwards (that produces a reorientation of the spine to the right).
Jeff.
That red line ain't exactly where the spine is is it?
When I drew that upper red line, I didn't draw it over the spine. I simply drew it through the middle of the upper torso and through the middle of the head to reflect the general direction of tilt of the upper torso - to demonstrate the reverse-K look. The spine is actually between that upper red line and the yellow line, and the general direction of tilt of the spine is parallel to that upper red line.
When I drew that upper red line, I didn't draw it over the spine. I simply drew it through the middle of the upper torso and through the middle of the head to reflect the general direction of tilt of the upper torso - to demonstrate the reverse-K look. The spine is actually between that upper red line and the yellow line, and the general direction of tilt of the spine is parallel to that upper red line.
Jeff.
I could just be being a doofus which I'm very good at . . . but I'd say the spine is more parallel to the yaller line.
The spine could be parallel to the yellow line. The yellow line is nearly parallel to the upper red line anyway, and these lines are not meant to be exact representations of body anatomy, but merely illustrative of the reverse-K end-backswing position.
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