Ah-Ha Moment 0001-2006

[Martee]

Yup, finally got it. Only took, well lets not go into that.

After talking with a number of people over the years, Phd's included, I finally get it.

1. The Sweetspot Plane is something you FEEL that you are swing on.

2. The Sweetspot Plane is not something you can draw on a picture, it is FEEL.

3. The True Plane Angle should be defined and Impact and then applied backward to photo when analyzing them.

4. The Clubshaft Angle is set at Impact Fix is the most likely and accurate line you can identify for see the Inclined Plane.

5. All of this HAS TO BE TRUE, else Homer's Plastic Plane as shown in all the photos would be invalid.

6. 10-5 supports this.

7. 2-F supports this in the definition of On Plane.

The Sweetspot Plane is just a Feel. Plane Boards wouldn't work, laser devices attached to the golf club shaft would be invalid.

That is not to say you can't identify it, but

a. It will always be flatter than the clubshaft plane
b. It is dynamic in that as the clubshaft is move to this plane (see 2-F description of On Plane) it will be changing

and I could go on...

Now if you all are going to say no to this, then I would like to see a series of pictures of a golfer is swinging on the sweetspot plane and at impact is in that position as well including showing that the Forearm is on plane while the clubshaft is not.. Cause you can't have a clubshaft on plane, a forearm on plane and call that the sweetspot plane and state that the clubshaft plane (defined by the clubshaft angle at impact or lie depending upon setup).

I wonder how many people really realize all the lines they are drawing are not the sweetspot plane.

Even Homer addressed part of the concern regarding lie angle in 7-6.

Feel vs Mechanical.....

[tongzilla]

Easy Martee!

Afterall, it's only a few degrees of difference. Good enough for me But I always know which one I'm feeling...

[Martee]

Easy Martee!

Afterall, it's only a few degrees of difference. Good enough for me But I always know which one I'm feeling...

Not very percise, not very TGM IMO. It does have impacts on analysis of the golf stroke of a golfer. I think it is important else I don't believe Homer would have included it in the book. Alignments...

[EdZ]

The key thing you mention Marty is the 'feel' of the plane.

That feel is, without question - in the HANDS.

So if you monitor the path and plane that the HANDS travel, that the force you generate is traveling, that of the pressure points.

Bingo.

There you have it. And to think, all this time it has been right in your HANDS!



Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 6B-1D and 10-2-B, 2-0 A and B.

Pay attention to the path, plane and force that your HANDS travel.

[Martee]

But when you analyze the photos and videos, you can't draw the feel line. That has been the point I have been trying to address cause what is being said is it is the sweetspot plane angle, sweet spot plane line and that dog just doesn't hunt.

I have not issue stating you monitor and FEEL the sweetspot line, but that is not the actual path of the golf club.

[phillygolf]

Hmmmm.....
Hang on. We got a guy overboard here (me).

This is a great thread, and one that has smoke coming from my ears.

But...

Personally, I feel that impact planeline and lowpoint planeline are different animals. Both nocturnal, yes, but different.

And I am seeing in 2-C (dual horizontal) two different planelines that will not produce the same results. Because the clubhead passes through both doesnt mean, to me, that either planeline can be used.

Can anyone clear it up for me?

Thanks.

[Martee]

Hmmmm.....
Hang on. We got a guy overboard here (me).

This is a great thread, and one that has smoke coming from my ears.

But...

Personally, I feel that impact planeline and lowpoint planeline are different animals. Both nocturnal, yes, but different.

And I am seeing in 2-C (dual horizontal) two different planelines that will not produce the same results. Because the clubhead passes through both doesnt mean, to me, that either planeline can be used.

Can anyone clear it up for me?

Thanks.

Best I can answer is that they are both on the SAME Plane, the sweetspot plane as shown in 2-C-1 #1.

Maybe this will help. When seeing both of these represented as lines on the ground you would see the Impact Plane Line inside the target line (between the ball and feet). The Low Point plane line would be on the target line. There is a difference between (space) them base on the distance the ball is from the low point. (can't locate reference, call it old age).

Hinging not withstanding both will always be on the plane, this is not the incline plane that the clubshaft is on, but the sweetspot plane.

The Lob shot would I believe require a different description but for standard strokes it is accurate.

[birdie_man]

Ah icic what this is all about now....

Was making me crazy for a bit over here....seemed like it was too much for me to read when I'm all tired...

So.....if you trace with the Clubshaft (i.e. keep the clubshaft pointing at the Plane Line)....TECHNICALLY, you'll hit it off the hosel....technically....

So either you trace just inside the Plane Line with it (the clubshaft)......or you trace with the (invisible, completely feel-based) Sweetspot Plane (if you connect a line between PP#3 [I assume it's PP#3] and the sweetspot of the clubface).

I get it.

[Martee]

When reading 2-C-1#1 remember that the Impact interval has been extended to Low Point (Homer has this statement in the first paragraph). Does that clear things up?

How you can trace either the impact line or the low point line since the ball could be located at low point, thus no difference in line.

The Impact Plane Line and the Low Point Plane line reside on the same plane as shown in 2-C-1#1. The Low Point line is further down the sweet spot plane (lower) thus it presents a 2nd line outside the impact line when represented on the ground.

I probably haven't explained this very well, but if you look at 2-C-1#1 and keep in mind the extended impact interval to Low Point, it should clear it up (I hope).

[phillygolf]

When reading 2-C-1#1 remember that the Impact interval has been extended to Low Point (Homer has this statement in the first paragraph). Does that clear things up?

Great catch Martee - I never even looked at the paragraph.

How you can trace either the impact line or the low point line since the ball could be located at low point, thus no difference in line.

Yes, but only in that instance, no?

The Impact Plane Line and the Low Point Plane line reside on the same plane as shown in 2-C-1#1. The Low Point line is further down the sweet spot plane (lower) thus it presents a 2nd line outside the impact line when represented on the ground.

Agreed - which is kinda my point.

I probably haven't explained this very well, but if you look at 2-C-1#1 and keep in mind the extended impact interval to Low Point, it should clear it up (I hope).

No sir - your explanation is much more thought out then mine...
Let me see if I cant get my thoughts better organized and more concise. While I agree, both impact and low point are located on the same plane, my contention is, from a players perspective, one cannot trace both and get the same result.

Give me a day or so and let me see if I can articulate this better.