Jim Hardy comment , your thoughts?

[EdZ]

Jim himself mentioned that he wished he had called it "Arms oriented" and "Body oriented" swings. He's a bit tired of the hair splitting about the two swing types...takes away from the intended points.

When I read the above, I became even more confused what he is trying to say ...

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And basically I am also very curious about this. As a swinger with a Body Orientated swing like JH, he advocate that the right elbow is behind the hip at impact and that IS the KEY to accuracy and great impact. And he mentioned that Ben Hogan at his peak have his right elbow behind his hip at impact.( is that true?)

However here , tried and tested i learned a more natural way is bump left and let the arm/body lead the hip, flat left wrist and POW! . great and a more relaxed and natural movements. However , it feels like the right elbow is more in front of the hip or not neccesarry in front?

So .. Which is a more repeatable and prefered way? Any clarification is great. Hope to learn a little bit more

Thank you !

Sorry i sounded confused because I am !... or Should I?

I certainly agree that his book has an unfortunate title. It is a good discussion about the setup differences between a posture with the body more upright, vs a lot of forward bend from the hips.

These 'somewhat' map to the general trends of a hitter vs swinger - with more forward tilt from the hips making a hitter's motion more likely, and more upright a swingers (annika, stewart).

The elbow positions you talk of are punch vs pitch, with punch having an advantage in the accuracy department, and pitch more speed IMO.

If you use CF to power your motion, a pitch elbow can have an advantage, if you use muscular thrust (right triceps), a punch elbow can have an advantage.

Part of the point of his text was that what you do at setup defines what 'works best' during your motion, so as for which to use, it depends on your trends/setup/body/abilities.

[dkerby]

Hogan positioned his right elbow at the right "watch pocket",
the position that he set up with this waggle. Don't know if
this position is considered to be behin the hip or in front
of the hip. I keep reading Yodas forum topic on Hogans power
secret where Hogans right elbow moved forward. Per Homer
Kelley, the right elbow need to be inside the line of sight
to the ball before releasing.

[birdie_man]

The only beefs I have:

-the name (1P, 2P)....kinda misleading.....doesn't give you a good idea of what the plane really is.

-the "incompatibilites"....(some of) which really aren't incompatibilities.....for example- Hogan didn't have a strong grip, and is a "1P" guy according to Hardy's system.....and in Hardy's descriptions he has a "WARNING!" of this....

-the fact that if you go beyond the point where the left arm and shoulders line up you are no longer a "1P" guy (as I understand it)....even tho you've prolly just made a longer swing (and/or not as incredibly flat) and are now on the Turned Shoulder Plane as a result......still can be a Double Shift or Single Shift tho.....same motion essentially......doesn't at all make it similar to a "2P" swing.....as I see it.

-the horribly posed pictures in his GD article. (they look sooooo bad.....lol )