swing left, and look like this

[Delaware Golf]

Mainly, I think that it's a total misunderstanding of the geometry. People see the clubhead blur in a circle, so they attempt to draw circles instead of straight lines. Also, the circle seems to match a rotary motion. I asked him about his concepts. He spoke mostly about body power, turning hard to the left, etc. I think most of his information came from reading magazine articles and hearsay.

I've seen a mat that wanted you to trace a circle with a laser ("F" in geometry). Needless to say, Homer had it right about tracing the straight baseline. 2-J-3 shows us the visual equivalents. Simply placing balls on the ground to cover with the clubhead does not consider the geometric basis of the inclined plane. How would one decide the degree of curvature? There are no degrees of straight lines. Either you're tracing a straight line, or you're not. It's that simple.

You can't drop your hands straight down from the top, then rotate like a compass. The club goes down, out, and forward simultaneously and on-plane. They are not sequenced motions as some teach.

Ted,

Why doesn't 1-L-13 mention the word "Forward"???

And why does Homer mention the golf swing in this way in 12-5-0...."Use a slow, smooth motion up-and-back, down-and-out and up-and-in the same distance in both directions and continously as possible." No mention of forward there either???

DG

[Amen Corner]

Ted,

Why doesn't 1-L-13 mention the word "Forward"???

And why does Homer mention the golf swing in this way in 12-5-0...."Use a slow, smooth motion up-and-back, down-and-out and up-and-in the same distance in both directions and continously as possible." No mention of forward there either???

DG

I hope Ted comes with his thoughts on this matter.

My thoughts would be that people do not have enough down and out.

In their attempts to hit it far they add more forward to the already existing, and thereby "forgets" about the down. In most cases, they do not know that an out exists.

Hereby Mr. Kelleys stresses the importance of, perhaps, the 2 most important elements of the 3D downstroke.

But then again, it is only my interpretation.....I could be wrong

[birdie_man]

His clubface obviously has not been fixed yet.

If someone told him to "swing left" before fixing anything else....well.......

[EDIT]

...well.......then that's just plain bad advice. (for THIS guy)

And I really can't see it coming directly, and as a direct recommendation for this specific player, from anyone with any kind of experience or even anyone with any common sense. You just don't tell a slicer that he needs to swing left. That is what he's doing too much of already, and this advice does not come anywhere NEAR to addressing HIS first wobbly point. (i.e. the root cause of his problems)

The man has no problem swinging left I'll tell you that.........his clubface is WIDE OPEN. (ROOT CAUSE) And he also almost certainly has a reverse pivot too.

[Toolish]

That is the major problem with learning from the forums, or golf mags, or videos...it might be a great idea, but not for YOU at this time. Nicely pointed out birdie.

[12 piece bucket]

oh the birds of happiness are poopin' in the orange juice.

[birdie_man]

oh the birds of happiness are poopin' in the orange juice.

Ha.....I don't get it but it sounds funny anyway.

[birdie_man]

That is a good post....I have no problem with any of that Lynn.

...

BTW I just realized y'all may (also?) have been talking about Hardy, etc.....with "swinging left." Maybe an oversight on my part.

Anyway when certain people ("spaghetti eatin"...lol- if you catch my drift) say "swing left" though....

....what they mean by that is exactly as you say it Lynn:

After moving down and out until reaching Low Point the clubhead begins to move IN.

In other words- Trace a straight Plane Line!!

I mean......we all know how this works.......so I dunno if there is some kind of confusion as to what people teach.....or maybe confusion on my part with regards to exactly WHO is teaching whatever y'all think they are teaching.

Anyway tho....

The other thing that remains in all this I guess is: What about "swinging RIGHT?"

Well that of course is fine too. (if not exaggerated) Cause if you go back up to your summarizing and informative post above- the clubhead does move "to the right" (i.e. towards the Plane Line) until Low Point is reached.

"Swing left"........"Swing right".....

Either one too exaggerated is not so good.....and certain players need more of either one depending on the player....and I'm sure certain players may even need to FEEL a LOT more of one or the other. (i.e. for a fix in the present moment- start at one end of the spectrum....aim to exaggerate towards the other end....and wind up right in the middle)

So ya.....you do both.....

Or in other words--once again--Trace a straight Plane Line.

[tourdeep]

Anyway when certain people "swing left" though....what they mean by that is exactly as you say it Lynn:

After moving down and out until reaching Low Point the clubhead begins to move IN.

In other words- Trace a straight Plane Line!!


Or in other words--once again--Trace a straight Plane Line.

Paul,

Lynn is spot on and you as well! When I mentioned more "left", that's exactly it, continue to trace the plane line! denotation versus connotation thing and maybe I need to clean it up for more precision!

After all, what would a leftie do?

[Yoda]

During the Golf Stroke, the Clubhead orbits in an approximate circle. Assuming a Flat Left Wrist, the Down Plane orbit reaches its lowest point opposite the Left Shoulder.

Prior to reaching that Low Point, the Clubhead moves Down and Out (to the right). After the Low Point, the Clubhead moves Up and In (to the left). It is, after all, moving in a circle on an Inclined Plane.

Try it for yourself on a Horizontal Plane and see how really simple this 'pointing at a baseline' stuff really is. Through Impact, the Orbiting Clubhead only points at the Straight Line Baseline of its horizontal Plane of Motion. It therefore approaches Low Point from neither above nor below the Low Point Plane Line.

Through Impact, the Golfer best effects that On Plane Motion by Tracing the Baseline with the Right Forearm and #3 Pressure Point, not by "swinging left" with an Off Plane Right Shoulder and 'high' Right Forearm.

Even Hardy was asked why TOUR players 'X' and 'Y' made such obvious Off Plane motions during their Practice Strokes. Said he (paraphrased) in his newest book:

"They are exaggerating."

[tradekid]

This is where we have to make a distinction. I see so many people, post impact, will continue to take their HANDS down the base of the inclined plane. Or better put, from the players perspective, they continue to trace or thrust their hands towards the target. Only problems can be the result. I think what we're really talking about here is DELIVERY LINE-PREP-ROLL. You know I only have the 6th and 7th edition but Homer didn't spend but one or two sentences on DELIVERY LINE-PREP-ROLL. And that's a shame because I think it is a very over looked part of the swing. I can only dream that if Homer had lived longer he may have spent more time exploring DELIVERY LINE-PREP- ROLL. But this is a very important key to tracing the straight plane line with a FLAT LEFT WRIST (bent right wrist).

Put a laser on the end of a clubshaft. Draw a target line, (base of the incline plane line) and then, with a bent right wrist and flat left, from the TOP or END trace the line with the laser into impact on the downswing. After impact(FOLLOW THROUGH both arms straight) if you have maintained a bent right wrist the HANDS will move left and the clubshaft will continue to point at the base of the inclined plane. IF YOU WANT THE CLUBSHAFT TO POINT AT THE BASE OF THE INCLINED PLANE WITH A FLAT LEFT WRIST THE HANDS HAVE TO MOVE LEFT. Plus, this will only be true if the player has a correst PIVOT. That's probably more important than the moving the hands left. I would venture to guess that 75% of golfers swings blow because of an incorrect pivot. But that's another topic.

I think we're letting semantics get in our way of what "swinging left" is.