Just plane confused!

[Jeff]

In this model of a golfer, surely there are three axis points - i) the shoulders are rotating around the spine fulcrum point; ii) the left arm is rotating around the left shoulder socket fulcrum point; and iii) the clubshaft is rotating around the left hand/wrist fulcrum point.

As Matthew has correctly stated, the left shoulder point fulcrum point is moving upwards in the peri-impact zone and this moves the left hand/wrist fulcrum point upwards to an equal degree. While this is happening, the clubshaft is descending to the low point of its arc (relative to the left wrist/hand fulcrum point) and the low point depends on where the clubhead is in space at the time point of impact and the time point of the deepest divot depth (low point of the entire system). However, there is a third compounding factor - the movement of the spine fulcrum point upwards and rightwards as the golfer stands-up through impact. Surely, that must affect the low point of the entire three fulcrum point system because movement of the spine affects the position of the left shoulder?

Jeff.

[Mike O]

In this model of a golfer, surely there are three axis points - i) the shoulders are rotating around the spine fulcrum point; ii) the left arm is rotating around the left shoulder socket fulcrum point; and iii) the clubshaft is rotating around the left hand/wrist fulcrum point.

As Matthew has correctly stated, the left shoulder point fulcrum point is moving upwards in the peri-impact zone and this moves the left hand/wrist fulcrum point upwards to an equal degree. While this is happening, the clubshaft is descending to the low point of its arc (relative to the left wrist/hand fulcrum point) and the low point depends on where the clubhead is in space at the time point of impact and the time point of the deepest divot depth (low point of the entire system). However, there is a third compounding factor - the movement of the spine fulcrum point upwards and rightwards as the golfer stands-up through impact. Surely, that must affect the low point of the entire three fulcrum point system because movement of the spine affects the position of the left shoulder?

Jeff.

Jeff,
Feel free to post but I'm waiting for Matthew to respond to my post and closing out our conversation. Surely, there are many other centers - and they may or may not affect the overall lowpoint of the system but I believe for now that Mathew and I are limiting the discussion to a "two center system" in order to understand the principle at hand.
Thanks

[Jeff]

Mike - my question is not intended to intrude in your discussion with Matthew regarding a "two center system". I am just trying to understand all the factors that could affect the position of the low point. Hopefully, Matthew can address the question whether other factors significantly affect the position of the low point. One factor would be the degree of "standing up" at impact and also the degree of secondary axis tilt. Another potential factor would be the degree of left-lateral hip slide that occurs during the downswing. I noted that the outer border of Ben Hogan's left pelvis is well within the outer border of his left foot at impact when hitting a driver, while other golfers have the outer border of their left pelvis slightly outside the outer border of the left foot at impact. It would seem to me that variations in the position of the pelvis at impact (degree of left-lateral slide and/or degree of hip openess at impact) must affect the position of the lumbar spine, and therefore the upper spine, and subsequently the left shoulder socket at the time-point when the clubhead reaches its low point.

Jeff.

[Mike O]

Mike - my question is not intended to intrude in your discussion with Matthew regarding a "two center system". I am just trying to understand all the factors that could affect the position of the low point. Hopefully, Matthew can address the question whether other factors significantly affect the position of the low point. One factor would be the degree of "standing up" at impact and also the degree of secondary axis tilt. Another potential factor would be the degree of left-lateral hip slide that occurs during the downswing. I noted that the outer border of Ben Hogan's left pelvis is well within the outer border of his left foot at impact when hitting a driver, while other golfers have the outer border of their left pelvis slightly outside the outer border of the left foot at impact. It would seem to me that variations in the position of the pelvis at impact (degree of left-lateral slide and/or degree of hip openess at impact) must affect the position of the lumbar spine, and therefore the upper spine, and subsequently the left shoulder socket at the time-point when the clubhead reaches its low point.

Jeff.

Agreed.........

[Mathew]

Agreed.........

Well ask questions then....