Downswing, assuming straight square-square plane line (mid iron so not unreasonable).
The left arm is not in the same plane as the sweetspot and left wrist uncock.
So when Homer says "delivery line prep...delivery line uncocking prep...delivery line ROLL prep..." etc..
That means that the left wrist needs to be bent or cupped if there is to be no rolling of the sweetspot off the plane prior to a sequenced release for swinger...if the left wrist uncocks on the square-square plane line.... That is my interpretation of Matthew's video posts last month.... maybe i got some of it wrong...
If left wrist uncocks on the plane line that the left arm is moving on at this time (in photo) then it will uncock on a 10-5-E type angle...? anybody agree?...it is just that that thought might give one a downswing plane something like ...
in Modern Fundamentals...
Any comments or thoughts? Thanks...I am sure to this topic than we got out of the thread last month.
Look at the overhead shot of Jack at about 0:42...
Does the the left arm reach parallel to the square-square plane line at the end of pivot transport(ie. before acc 4 releases)...acc 4 releases "on plane"...and the left wrist uncocks when the shaft is parallel to the plane line...and hence can allow a true flat left wrist to uncock on the plane line without a need for cupping of the left wrist??
At 0:42....the clubshaft can not uncock on the straight plane line....the left wrist is flat or even arched...does Jack have to hold/delay the left wrist uncock until the shaft is parallel with the square-square plane line?
Sorry if abit rambling...tired...if bored can see what Jack has to say in this clip about ball position and check out the thread I started in "basic" section.
10.5.E .. will result in a more armish release because the arm will release to the right or to the target ... a more high push trajectory. like trevino. norman. fred couples. We have a choice to do open.square .close plane relationships and they will yield different playing characteristic and trajectories.. this for at least what i am told..
Cupping of wrist.. you should seach on " Geometrical FLAT LEFT wrist" Ted fort did a real good explanation on that.
3D and not 2D , Your getting somewhere ! .. The left arm and shaft angle , the accumulator 3 .. thus the only thing on plane is the shaft.. left arm point straight to ground.. and the left wrist uncocks and cocks to that plane...
Now the during the downswing.. the left hand is ahead of the right hand and butt pointing at target at waist height. shaft parrallel to plane. THEN left wrist start to uncock downplane.. also the right hand start to "show" itself to the target..as the wrists uncocks downplane.. UNTILL at impact. the club /and arms become Inline conditions. at this point the body already open up if we are using pp 4 .. and the left arm and right arm should see the target .. and the right hand is down the plane below the left hand..
after this point.. the right arm should start overtaking the left..until the club is again waist high.. the right arm is closest to target and the left wrist is behind.. and the Acc3 of the left wrist increases... due to cocking. The stronger the left grip.. the more bend the left wrist at this point. The more FLIPPY it looks which is not a Hacker flip btw..
We could see this "traits" very clearly in Swingvision. I hope i made some interesting descriptions.but take it for some reference,, who knows hehe. Most players in tour now uses either strong double or strong single.. their wrist will arched at/after impact even. I started to get it when i observed Hogan home video... doing it in slow motion. waist to waist..
also take a good hard look at 10-3-D to 10-3-H. Minor stroke arm positions... It sure give alot of clues on how it can be done. in detail look at 10-3- F . J, and K ...pay attention to 10 3 f #1 and #2... picture ... arm wrist and hand relationship.
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Downswing, assuming straight square-square plane line (mid iron so not unreasonable).
The left arm is not in the same plane as the sweetspot and left wrist uncock.
So when Homer says "delivery line prep...delivery line uncocking prep...delivery line ROLL prep..." etc..
That means that the left wrist needs to be bent or cupped if there is to be no rolling of the sweetspot off the plane prior to a sequenced release for swinger...if the left wrist uncocks on the square-square plane line.... That is my interpretation of Matthew's video posts last month.... maybe i got some of it wrong...
If left wrist uncocks on the plane line that the left arm is moving on at this time (in photo) then it will uncock on a 10-5-E type angle...? anybody agree?...it is just that that thought might give one a downswing plane something like ...
in Modern Fundamentals...
Any comments or thoughts? Thanks...I am sure to this topic than we got out of the thread last month.
The idea that shifting the plane line to the right is going to enable the entire lever assembly to be onplane is fallacious because the left shoulder is in motion and that motion is not going to be on the inclined plane (nor is the right shoulders motion for that matter contrary to popular belief on the forum). When the left shoulder is not onplane, nor is the left arm...
The idea that shifting the plane line to the right is going to enable the entire lever assembly to be onplane is fallacious because the left shoulder is in motion and that motion is not going to be on the inclined plane (nor is the right shoulders motion for that matter contrary to popular belief on the forum). When the left shoulder is not onplane, nor is the left arm...
Thanks for looking Matthew, I know that you have had put alot of thought into this stuff. I agree that the plane should not shift like the picture depicts.
Do you have any thoughts about the release of acc.4...does that occur on any plane line?
the left shoulder is in motion and that motion is not going to be on the inclined plane (nor is the right shoulders motion for that matter contrary to popular belief on the forum).
Matthew,
While the Right Shoulder can not get down to to either the Hands Plane or the Elbow Plane, could you please explain why the Right Shoulder motion can not be "On Plane"?
The idea that shifting the plane line to the right is going to enable the entire lever assembly to be onplane is fallacious because the left shoulder is in motion and that motion is not going to be on the inclined plane (nor is the right shoulders motion for that matter contrary to popular belief on the forum).
While the Right Shoulder can not get down to to either the Hands Plane or the Elbow Plane, could you please explain why the Right Shoulder motion can not be "On Plane"?
Ok lets look at it from this perspective.
Now earlier, I stated that the right shoulder cannot be on the inclined plane but also it cannot be on a singular plane towards the plane line. I think instead of going into why this is so, I will just explain what happens - much more instructive I think....
The right shoulder should always move with a parallel relationship to the inclined plane.
There is one exception, when the right shoulder is on the inclined plane that parallel will actually be on the inclined plane, however to maintain the right shoulder on the shoulder plane for impact is absolutely 'physically' impossible and totally ludicrous if you try to draw it...anyways im not going into that just now.
Also the club cannot be swung during total motion on a singular plane angle (another common misconception (which im also not going into just now)), therefore it is advantageous for the plane angle to be set to the turned shoulder plane at the top of the backstroke so the initial motion can be made onplane. As the plane shifts to the angle desired for release as the clubs design mandates (and actually must be that way for mechanical reasons also - another factor I am not going into just now). The right shoulder must move identically with the inclined plane and as the plane angle adjusts will seperate and stay above the inclined plane moving with a parallel relationship so that the shoulder motion induces an onplane motion of the club.
Although I can understand the mechanical logic of moving the right shoulder parallel to the downswing plane (eg. elbow plane), I would imagine that one's ability to do so depends on spinal flexibility.
Here is a photo of Paula Creamer during the downswing.
She has amazing spinal flexibility and can tilt her right shoulder significantly downwards. I think that middle-aged/elderly male golfers are severely handicapped in terms of spinal/torso flexibility. Is there a suitable compensatory movement that can help them?
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